Gentoo Archives: gentoo-amd64

From: Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@×××.net>
To: gentoo-amd64@l.g.o
Subject: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Re: Re: libungif and giflib conflict.
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:00:17
Message-Id: pan.2005.11.02.20.54.23.514501@cox.net
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Re: libungif and giflib conflict. by Harm Geerts
Harm Geerts posted <200511021409.38666.harmgeerts@××××.nl>, excerpted
below,  on Wed, 02 Nov 2005 14:09:38 +0100:

> On Wednesday 02 November 2005 05:30, Nick Currier wrote: >> Looks like that got it guys. Thanks tons for the help.... It seems I broke >> portage by running only part ~amd64 packages. revdep-rebuild found it but >> it took twice to fix..... depclean wants to get rid of tons of stuff though >> so I'm thinking this is a bad idea or I have bigger problems.... Kudos to >> AMD64 Gentoo for the best support team in open source. > > It's normal for a system that hasn't been maintained the way it should ;)
Seconded. What depclean does is starting from your world file (and including stuff in your system profile that's not specifically listed in the world file), figure out what each package listed there needs to RUN (run-time dependencies, as opposed to compile-time dependencies), BASED ON CURRENT USE FLAGS, then unmerge other packages as unnecessary. This is why it's important to try it with --pretend, first, and check the list for sanity. There are a number of reasons something might be listed for removal that needs to be kept. 1. Occasionally, there might be something NOT listed in your world file (and that isn't a dependency of anything else) that you want. These are easy enough to append to your world file, removing them and their dependencies from the list. 2. USE flags affect dependencies, in many cases. If you merged something with one set of use flags, resulting in it linking against a particular library, then you changed your USE flags, so it would NOT link against it now, but you still have the old version, linked against that library, merged, then depclean will want to remove the library (because the current USE flags say it isn't needed), but doing so will break the currently merged package with outdated USE flags linked against it. This is why it's a good idea to run emerge --newuse (-N) --deep (-D) --update (-u) first. Doing so should find those currently merged packages with outdated USE flags and remerge them with current USE flags, thus NOT linking against that no longer needed library, allowing it to be unmerged without killing the stuff that formerly depended on it. It's also why running revdep-rebuild afterward, not just before, is a good idea. Doing so afterward catches anything that slipped thru the cracks the first time. 3. Note the emphasized RUNTIME above. The easiest way to explain this one is with a real example, taken from my experience. Example: k3b is probably the Linux world's best and most recognized all around CD/DVD burner, ripper, and media transcoder, all in one. With various USE flags set, it'll bring in as dependencies transcode and a bunch of different media codec libraries, that allow transcode to do its thing, converting from one media format to another on-the-fly. k3b of course then uses transcode as one of its tools, to help it convert between various formats, as well. The thing is, as the k3b ebuild is currently setup, transcode and a bunch of these media codec libraries are configured as MERGE TIME dependencies, NOT RUNTIME dependencies. Thus, depclean will want to remove them, which probably isn't what you want, if you had k3b USE flags setup to pull them in in the first place. Appending all the affected packages to the world file will prevent depclean from removing them as unneeded at runtime. That's probably one of the more extreme examples of where depclean will be almost GUARANTEED to do the wrong thing, if you don't check what it's going to do, and do that append before letting it do its thing. However, the same principle likely applies in other cases as well. Even where packages may not be actually used except to compile packages you /do/ use, you may want them in your world file, just to prevent depclean from unmerging them, and therefore having to remerge them the next time the package you want, that has them as merge-time only dependencies, gets upgraded. ALTERNATIVE/HINT: This is yet another place where FEATURES=buildpkg comes in handy. If you have portage automatically creating binary packages of everything you merge, you don't have to be quite as careful with depclean. If it removes something you decide you want, simply remerge the binpkg, avoiding the hassle of having to recompile the package from scratch. If you are NOT running FEATURES=buildpkg, yet you aren't sure if something's needed or not, try using quickpkg to package up the existing package as currently deployed on your system, before unmerging it. As above, if you find you needed the package after all, simply emerge -k it, and the binpkg you quickpackaged should be remerged, avoiding that extra recompile time.
> 1. Look over the list of packages that would be unmerged with: > # emerge --pretend depclean > 2. Inject the packages that should not be removed in your world file with: > # emerge --noreplace <package name>
Hmm... That --noreplace is a new one on me. I normally simply echo <category/pkg> >> /var/lib/portage/world That appends the echoed cat/package to the end of the named file, accomplishing what we are after. The only down side to doing it manually (using echo) is if you typo. Still, that's not hard to catch and fix, if depclean still wants to remove the package you (thought you) just added. Newer versions of portage (don't believe it's in stable portage yet) even have an emaint command that removes the bad lines for you.
> Repeats steps 1 and 2 untill you are satisfied.
> 3. clean the remaining packages with: > # emerge --ask depclean
Note that there's nothing magical about the depclean command itself, other than the fact that it automatically computes the dependencies and finds what can be unmerged, for you. Once it comes to the unmerge itself, that's really all it does. Consequently, here, I'll usually do an emerge --pretend depclean, then simply use the list to add packages to the world file or manually emerge --unmerge them. I very rarely run emerge depclean without the --pretend; that is, I don't often let it do the unmerging on its own. Rather, I use it to get a list, and do the unmerging directly, myself. No big deal, it's just a matter of style, but I feel more in control doing it myself. =8^) One thing about doing the unmerges manually, however, is that if the list is a bit long, one can unmerge stuff as they decide they don't need it, or add it to the world file as they decide they do, thus dealing with the list a bit at a time. Whittling the list down this way, one can repeatedly run depclean pretend, addressing just a few packages each time, until the list gets to a rather more manageable size -- something that might help if depclean hasn't been run in awhile.
> 4. rebuild packages that were built against older/removed libaries: > # revdep-rebuild --pretend (part of app-portage/gentoolkit) > > In order to keep your system clean in the future upgrade world like > this: > 1. upgrade your world, remerge packages that have a changed USE > flag and upgrade deep dependencies. > # emerge --ask --deep --newuse --upgrade world > 2. rebuild packages that were built against older/removed libaries > # revdep-rebuild --pretend > > If you ever remove a package do it like this: > 1. remove the package > # emerge --ask --unmerge package > 2. remove the dependencies but always check the output. other packages > might use them even though they are not a direct dependency > # emerge --ask depclean > 3. rebuild packages that were build against libaries you just removed > # revdep-rebuild --pretend > > This is how I maintain all my systems. If anyone has remarks/tips I'd be > glad to hear them.
Very well written! My tips, mainly the FEATURES=buildpkg or quickpkg thing, to get binary packages and avoid a possible recompile during a possible remerge, if you are unsure, and the individual package removal thing, are above, but they are mainly a matter of personal style. Your system hygiene routine is top notch! Two more things... 1. I already mentioned one of the new features of the new portage (2.0.53, now in the rc stage in ~arch), emaint, that helps clean invalid entries out of the world file. The new portage has another useful new tool as well, eclean. eclean is designed to help manage the accumulated source tarballs in $DISTDIR, cleaning out the ones that no longer match anything in portage, by default, or if desired, cleaning out all the tarballs that don't match packages currently merged (older tarballs for packages with ebuilds still in portage, mainly). For those using FEATURES=buildpkg, eclean can manage the $PACKAGEDIR the same way, deleting binary packages no longer matching anything in portage by default, or getting stricter and deleting packages not matching stuff currently merged, if desired. eclean started out as one of several tools authored and contributed by Gentoo users, that did much the same thing. It was selected for inclusion in portage because it matched the way portage worked already, and because it did its job well. For those still running portage 2.0.52 (stable), eclean is available as a separate package, altho it's not in the tree. I believe it can be found in the forums. 2. All this should reemphasize the role of the world file. It should list all your "leaf" packages, for the most part, executables. It should NOT list "trunk and branch" packages, dependencies of the leaves, for the most part, libraries and the like. The problem with branch dependencies listed in the world file is that when the leaf dependencies that use them are no longer needed and are unmerged, depclean still won't try to remove them, because they are listed in the world file, even tho they are no longer needed. OTOH, not listing leaf dependencies in the world file means depclean will try to remove them, when they are something you WANT to keep. Depclean, therefore, is the only tool around that helps to remove stale dependencies after the packages using them have been unmerged. Without it, the leaf packages may be removed from the world file and unmerged, but the dependencies they brought in continue to hang around, becoming a breeding ground for possible bugs and security vulnerabilities, in addition to the space they take up and the the directories they fill. HINT: For this reason, here, I've created a set of aliases I use instead of calling emerge directly. By default, now, I call emerge --oneshot, which will NOT add stuff I emerge to the world file. That way, I can emerge dependencies to my heart's content, without worrying about having them clogging up my world file. In the event I'm actually emerging a new "leaf" package that's not in the world file yet, I either don't use those aliases, so it's added to the world file, or (more likely since it's habit) use the aliases, but then add them to my world file manually, the next time I run depclean and find them listed. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman in http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html -- gentoo-amd64@g.o mailing list

Replies

Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Re: Re: libungif and giflib conflict. Harm Geerts <harmgeerts@××××.nl>
Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Re: Re: libungif and giflib conflict. Sebastian Redl <sebastian.redl@×××××××××××.at>