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On Mittwoch 07 Januar 2009, Marcus D. Hanwell wrote: |
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> On Wednesday 07 January 2009 16:37:41 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: |
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> > On Mittwoch 07 Januar 2009, Marcus D. Hanwell wrote: |
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> > > On Wednesday 07 January 2009 10:17:56 Mark Haney wrote: |
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> > > > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: |
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> > > > > On Mittwoch 07 Januar 2009, Mark Haney wrote: |
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> > > > >> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: |
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> > > > >>> with kdeprefix everything lands in /usr/kde/<version> which is |
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> > > > >>> cool and usefull |
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> > > > >>> |
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> > > > >>> without kdeprefix everything ends in /usr which is stupid and |
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> > > > >>> hurts you if you want to try different kde versions - or have |
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> > > > >>> several versions installed so you can always go back easily when |
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> > > > >>> the newest one breaks. But it is FHS compliant. |
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> > > > >>> |
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> > > > >>> At the beginning gentoo was 'screw stupid standards, do the |
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> > > > >>> sensible thing' - but in the mean time the 'if there is a |
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> > > > >>> standard we have to adhere to it no matter how idiotic' crowd has |
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> > > > >>> got way to much power. |
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> > > |
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> > > I am apparently part of this crowd, but what you are saying seems to |
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> > > have a large amount of your opinion with a sprinkling of fact. Almost |
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> > > all other packages install into /usr and it is in fact a Gentoo policy |
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> > > that packages install into /usr and follow FHS where practical. This |
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> > > has been a policy for many years... |
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> > > |
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> > > Upstream does not support installing into prefixes and this has in fact |
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> > > made KDE difficult to support in the past, and has led to Gentoo |
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> > > specific bugs along with issues linking to the right libs etc... |
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> > |
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> > kde was once installed into /opt so it wouldn't clutter /usr - which I |
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> > always liked in the past. KDE didn't clutter /usr like gnome does. That |
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> > made it easy to find and change everything/something belonging to kde. So |
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> > when I arrived at gentoo and saw kde going to /usr/kde I was a happy |
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> > camper. |
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> > |
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> > At the moment I am using the live ebuilds - and it saved my ass several |
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> > times, that I can make an easy backup of it (just tar it up) before the |
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> > next upgrade. Same for the 4.1.8X versions. Heck, in the past, I backed |
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> > up 3.5 before every version upgrade too, just in case - and it was a good |
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> > thing to do so. |
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> > |
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> > Why adhere to a standard that *increases* clutter and makes it harder to |
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> > have several versions of an app installed? |
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> |
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> Because it makes KDE easier to maintain, it is the most widely tested way |
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> of installing KDE and the way upstream intended. You still have the option |
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> of using the kdeprefix if you wish to do so. For the normal user I totally |
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> believe that the -kdeprefix install is the best thing for them. |
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> |
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> Consider a typical situation where a user installs KDE 3.3, upgrades to |
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> 3.4, upgrades again to 3.5. Each time they install in a new slot and KDE |
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> eats up more and more disk space. The odd application still links to some |
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> of the older kdelibs that are no longer maintained. They recompile KDE |
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> 3.4.4 and 3.5.1 in an upgrade as they were both bumped but they only use |
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> the latest one. |
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|
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it only eats 'more space' ones - when creating 3.5 parallel to 3.4. |
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|
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And if you install directly into /usr you STILL have to recompile the odd app, |
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because it will be broken anyway after the update. So nothing one with an |
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installation directly into /usr. Just a lot lost. |
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|
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> |
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> Consider the packaging issues associated with maintaining what are |
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> effectively multiple chroots that are very leaky... Consider we are |
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> volunteers and basically just want to get KDE working well. There are users |
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> like you who like tarring. You can just as easily make binary packages of |
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> installed KDE apps and quickly move back and forth that way. |
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|
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it is way easier to rm&untar one directoy, than to have to hunt down 213 |
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binary packages. |
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|
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> |
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> Personally I think it would be a lot simpler for users and us to only have |
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> - kdeprefix in portage, and maintain live/snapshots that can install into |
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> kdeprefixes. I myself maintain a stable installed in /usr/ and a live tree |
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> in /usr/kde/live... |
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|
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so if you want to install 4.1 and 4.2 at the same time (because 4.2 will |
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certainly be troublesome until .2 or .3) you are screwed? |
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|
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http://marc.info/?l=gentoo-dev&m=123108542712650&w=2 |
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|
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" - decide if we should provide +kdeprefix for stable releases and |
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snapshots" |
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|
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sounds bad ... 'if' for snapshots... ? bad, bad. |