On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 10:53 -0800, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> On 13:12 Thu 08 Nov , Ferris McCormick wrote:
> > This is a big step forward, and if we had a binary situation: either
> > accept it as written or go back to the drawing board, I'd prefer to
> > accept. Thus my comments which follow are best viewed as requests for
> > clarification or of personal inclination.
> Thanks for your comments, and I want to reiterate that we certainly do
> not have a binary situation in that respect. What we do have is
> preliminary text that could use suggestions like yours. =)
> > 1. Are 3 (or 5) people sufficient to ensure quick reactions to mailing
> > list questions or IRC? This is minor, and starting with 3 to put the
> > process in place and tune it as needed probably works. My concern is
> > longer term. Speaking for myself, for instance, I almost never see
> > problems on IRC until they are long over, and I suspect this is the case
> > for most people. Similarly (usually) with mail. And I don't think we
> > want a corps of full-time monitors.
> I understand your point, which amne also brought up. My main concerns
> with a larger group are that it will be unable to maintain a cohesive
> view of the CoC and that anyone who feels like it can join up.
I think I agree that fewer is better in this case. Starting with 3
growing to 5 probably works about right. At least until we have some
> > 2. As to forums, I've never seen that the forum moderators need any
> > help with what they are doing. Actually, in a sense I think the forums
> > are kind of a model for what you are proposing.
> I agree. Should we add a note that already-moderated places (#gentoo,
> forums) should not need additional moderation?
--- Snip for economy ---
> > 5. Do you perceive the enforcement group as an arm of the Council
> > rather than as a group of its own? Previously, the Council did not seem
> > to know what to do when the Proctors' views of Code of Conduct and
> > Councils' *individual* views of Code of Conduct seemed to diverge. This
> > led to the unusual step of simply eliminating the Proctors. I rather
> > doubt that you would find much enthusiasm for working in such an
> > environment again. So, what you are proposing probably works for any
> > given Council (assuming continuing commitment from council to council).
> > I think my concern is addressed to (a) continuing commitment; (b)
> > consistency and continuity. The Gentoo community need to understand the
> > rules so that they become a part of our culture, so that even with
> > annual assessment, we should expect evolution rather than catastrophe.
> > (This was all a bit muddled. That's sure indication that so are my
> > thoughts, so take it for what it's worth.)
> > 6. "Developers can be members of both [Council and Code of Conduct
> > team]." This is the one sentence I take exception to. It's better to
> > work for more community involvement rather than allow concentration
> > resulting in personnel wearing multiple hats.
> The above two points tie together, in my mind. It would be preferable to
> have at least one of the team members be on council to ensure that their
> CoC interpretations are consistent.
Nice point. You sold me, assuming agreement among the Council members
(or at least agreement to give great weight to the reading from whoever
is a member of both.)
> That gave me a new idea. What if the first 2-4 weeks, the team did not
> actually take any action but just documented what its actions would have
> been? This would give people a feeling for what level of enforcement
> we'd see for the CoC.
I like this.
> > 7. Off the top of my head, why not allow (or require) that one member
> > of the team be a user but not a developer? Userrel, all, comments?
> If we could find a user with a strong enough grasp of Gentoo culture,
> I'm open to the idea, and I'd like to make any users adjunct staff
> members during their term to avoid that annoying "Users don't have power
> over me" syndrome.
I have one or two ideas, and I would guess so does Christel.
Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Developer, Gentoo Linux (Devrel, Sparc)