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To: gentoo-council@g.o
From: Donnie Berkholz <dberkholz@g.o>
Subject: Council meeting summary for 12 June 2008
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 00:38:09 -0700
Hi all,

Here is the summary from today's council meeting. The complete log will
show up at http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/ shortly.

Thanks,
Donnie
Quick summary
=============

Overall, the meeting went really well! Things that helped were 
additional preparation notes in the agenda, a requirement to hold 
discussions on-list instead of dragging out the meeting, and our 
emphasized ability and willingness to hold votes on-list rather than 
waiting another month. The meeting started at 20:00 and was over at 
21:23, a vast improvement. We beat the 2-hour time limit we set.

Because of the emphasis of on-list discussions, a number of the topics 
in the agenda & summary weren't actually mentioned during the meeting. 
Instead consider the agenda & summary as a list of ongoing matters for 
the council.


PMS: Versions can have >8 digits. If you want a maximum limit, discuss 
it with relevant people and propose one.

Appeals: Will be handled using dberkholz's proposal: 
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-council/msg_d7c402fb577a3d5b1707e2bdf4b0a264.xml

LDFLAGS="--as-needed" by default: antarus will present a deployment plan 
to -dev for how this would proceed.

GLEP 54: There was a new proposal 12 hours before the meeting. Wait for 
discussion. Council members should post anything they have to add by the 
end of the weekend.

GLEP 55: Discussion is clearly active. Council members should post 
anything they have to add by the end of the weekend.

GLEP 56: Technically good, still some room for improvement. Council 
members should post anything they have to add by the end of the weekend.

PMS status: This is a discussion that belongs on the mailing list. 
Council members should post anything they have to add by the end of the 
weekend.



Roll call
=========

(here, proxy [by whom] or slacker?)

amne        here
betelgeuse  here
dberkholz   here
flameeyes   proxy [cardoe]
lu_zero	    here
vapier      slacker [emergency at work]
jokey       here


Meeting
=======

Moderation
----------
Modes +qnm, with voice for people involved in discussions?

If it becomes necessary, we'll do it. Leave channel open till then.

Time limit
----------
2 hours?

Yes. We'll move any topics we didn't cover to the mailing lists.


Updates to last month's topics
==============================

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20080508-summary.txt


Document of being an active developer
-------------------------------------
Requested attendees: araujo

Last month: Numerous suggested improvements to info on the certificate.

Preparation: araujo needs to post progress, an updated certificate and 
any new requests to the gentoo-council or gentoo-project list 2+ hours 
before the meeting.

Goal: Suggest changes. This should happen on-list. No discussion 
expected.


Slacker arches
--------------
Preparation: vapier needs to send the post 2+ hours before the meeting.

Goal: Suggest changes. This should happen on-list. No discussion 
expected.


Can the council help fewer bugs get ignored by arm/sh/s390 teams? 
----------------------------------------------------------------- 
Preparation: Someone on an undermanned arch team needs to describe their 
workflow on-list 2+ hours before the meeting.

Goal: Suggest changes. This should happen on-list. No discussion 
expected.


PMS: Are versions allowed to have more than 8 digits?
-----------------------------------------------------
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_db2f5c09c2c0c8b042ca3d0dcec7cdaf.xml
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=188449

Preparation: Do the package maintainers with extremely long PVs need 
them? The involved packages:
	sys-process/fuser-bsd
	sys-apps/net-tools
	sys-apps/gradm
	net-im/ntame
	media-video/captury
	media-libs/libcaptury
	media-libs/capseo
	sys-block/btrace
	www-apache/mod_depends
	net-wireless/rt2500
	sys-fs/unionfs

Preparation: What's the impact of extending versionator.eclass? 

Goal: With data in hand, make a decision.

Decision: We didn't have all of the testing requested. We still voted to 
allow versions >8 digits. Adding a maximum restriction is a separate 
question and was not addressed -- if anyone wants this restriction, 
please discuss with fellow implementors and present your consensus to 
the council.


How to handle appeals
---------------------
Preparation: Post to the gentoo-council mailing list 2+ hours before the 
meeting with your opinion.

	dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-council/msg_d7c402fb577a3d5b1707e2bdf4b0a264.xml

Goal: Vote on an approach that was previously posted to the list.

Decision: We approved dberkholz's proposal.


New topics
==========

as-needed by default
--------------------
antarus requested that we vote on whether to add it to the default 
LDFLAGS.

Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "RFC: --as-needed to 
default LDFLAGS" 2+ hours before the meeting.

	dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_fdfd519c5372394cc7f3aacaefa387b9.xml

Goal: Vote.

Result: Whether this should be in default LDFLAGS or suggested in 
make.conf.example wasn't clear. Betelgeuse suggested that we should know 
the whole tree will build with this LDFLAGS setting (with open bugs for 
packages that append -Wl,--no-as-needed) before we would consider 
enabling it by default.

Antarus will post a deployment plan to -dev for discussion. We can vote 
on it on -council as soon as it solidifies.


GLEP 54
-------
Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "A few questions to 
our nominees" 2+ hours before the meeting.

	dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_c6e4ba8293f50c1e0444e67d59cf85ea.xml
	lu_zero: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_05614741b3942bfdfb21fd8ebb7955e0.xml

Goal: Vote.

Result: lu_zero posted a second plan 12 hours ago. Since it hasn't been 
around long enough to get much feedback, we decided to let them develop 
and see if the ideas somehow merge.


GLEP 55
-------
Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "GLEP 55" 2+ hours 
before the meeting. Let it attempt to come to a consensus before we 
vote.

	dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_c6e4ba8293f50c1e0444e67d59cf85ea.xml

Goal: Vote once the discussion's no longer clearly ongoing. We can hold 
this vote on the -council mailing list instead of waiting for the next 
meeting.


GLEP 56
-------
Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "[GLEP56] USE flag 
descriptions in metadata" 2+ hours before the meeting. Let it attempt to 
come to a consensus before we vote.

	dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_54ee20d2b1d8122370afdd4b3d7aafc9.xml

Goal: Vote once the discussion's no longer clearly ongoing. We can hold 
this vote on the -council mailing list instead of waiting for the next 
meeting.

There is still room for improvement in this GLEP, not so much in its 
technical aspects but in the way it promotes itself, the possible 
generation of legacy files, and the tools to use it.


Status of PMS
-------------
ferringb said:
  I'd like the council to please discuss the current status of PMS, if 
  the running of it satisfys the councils requirements of a *neutral* 
  standard, if the proposed spec actually meets said standards, and if 
  said spec is actually going to be approved sometimes this side of '09.

Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "One-Day Gentoo 
Council Reminder for June" 2+ hours before the meeting.

	dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_9e9652212b3aefe09d93fc24c6ec4cb7.xml
	vapier: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_37b3ca89a1d253516437facd22a3d806.xml

Result: This is a discussion that belongs on the mailing list. Council 
members should post anything they have to add by the end of the weekend.
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Updated Jun 17, 2009

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