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foser <foser@g.o> said: |
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|
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> On Thu, 2003-10-09 at 15:22, Paul de Vrieze wrote: |
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>> If that is the only way then we might come to the conclusion that the best |
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>> solution is to wait. I do think though that at least good documentation might |
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>> be another solution. |
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> |
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> Documenting fonts is like setting defaults : a disaster, what you like |
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> on your monitor looks pretty bad on another persons LCD, etc. It's so |
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> much a personal thing that setting up defaults will always upset some |
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> users. And should such a document support legacy font support (xfs, xft1 |
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> etc. ?). I guess one could set up a document describing what is possible |
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> in configuring xft2/fontconfig. |
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|
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If I see correctly, the things that makes ugly fonts : |
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|
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- bad looking fonts |
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- missing fonts (so it uses not suited ones) |
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- badly configured xft*/fontconfig |
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- software not using last freetype/xft ... |
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|
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( feel free to add reasons if I missed som) |
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|
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So, to clarify, we could : |
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- run some test to see if fonts are ugly in common use in different languages |
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(I'll do some test cause I have a fresh gentoo) |
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- go through default available fonts (after having emerged kde and gnome), and |
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list the ugliest ones |
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- check the fontconfig, xft configurations |
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- list known software that doesn't use the good font systems. |
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|
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Whith that done we'll be able to see where the problems are, wnd decide if we |
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want to : |
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- wait |
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- try to get new fonts (many additional set of fonts by default) |
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- change font configuration |
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- change software so that they use latest technology (I have seen in the past |
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some patchs to make this and that use freetype2, I think OpenOffice had such a |
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patch, but I thougt it was in the main now) |
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|
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In addition, we can think of making font managment easy for the user. (I wrote |
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the font managment tool for mandrakeLinux, he had some working features, but |
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uses old font tools). |
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|
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>> I did not mean to be western-centered. I was suggesting that we look into |
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>> improving the fonts. I don't want non-western fonts to be looking worse |
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>> because of it. Actually did you try sometime to run konsole with |
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>> LC_CTYPE="zh_CN", it is really ugly, and it should be possible to fix this. |
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> |
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> My point more is that if you set it up for latin charset users (what we |
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> obviously would do) you might make mistakes you aren't even aware of. It |
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> needs to be coordinated with asian,arabic,hebrew devs/users for as far |
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> we have them. There already has been some discussion on setting this up |
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> in a configurable fashion for different charsets, but that needs the |
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> improved fontconfig. |
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|
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btw do we have i18n/fonts gurus @ gentoo? |
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|
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> |
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>> > You should install exactly the same fonts to have the same effect and |
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>> > thats also a question of installing windows fonts or not. KDE just has |
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>> > bad font defaults, helvetica everywhere is just a bad choice. Current |
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>> > fontconfig setups should solve most of these problems afaik. |
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>> > |
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>> |
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>> I agree that helvetica is a bad choice, but we might look into making |
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>> helvetica look not too bad at least in some cases |
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> |
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> The problem usually is that it uses the the standard xfree bitmap stuff, |
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> you can't make that look good. Just use fontconfig identifiers like |
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> 'sans' for fonts. That should also make the looks of GTK+ and QT apps |
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> more alike (for as far this doesn't happen already, been a while since i |
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> did a KDE install). |
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> |
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>> > afaik OO uses its own (outdated?) freetype etc. Do from source ebuilds |
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>> > have these problems too ? They could use the system libs and settings. |
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>> |
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>> I always use from source openoffice. I don't perceive any font problems. In |
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>> the from-source version we do indeed use the latest freetype. |
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> |
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> But not the system one (yes im too lazy to look at ebuilds atm ;)) ? If |
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> there's no real good reason for that, it should be changed. |
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|
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grepping the ebuild shows : |
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|
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# Enable Bytecode Interpreter for freetype ... |
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append-flags "-DTT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER" |
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|
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and in the SRC_URI there is a |
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mirror://sourceforge/freetype/freetype-${FT_VER}.tar.bz2" |
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|
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-- |
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dams |
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|
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-- |
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