1 |
foser <foser@g.o> said: |
2 |
|
3 |
> On Thu, 2003-10-09 at 16:09, dams@×××.fr wrote: |
4 |
>> If I see correctly, the things that makes ugly fonts : |
5 |
>> |
6 |
>> - bad looking fonts |
7 |
>> - missing fonts (so it uses not suited ones) |
8 |
>> - badly configured xft*/fontconfig |
9 |
>> - software not using last freetype/xft ... |
10 |
>> |
11 |
>> ( feel free to add reasons if I missed som) |
12 |
>> |
13 |
>> So, to clarify, we could : |
14 |
>> - run some test to see if fonts are ugly in common use in different languages |
15 |
>> (I'll do some test cause I have a fresh gentoo) |
16 |
> |
17 |
> Here you already have a problem, the perception of font quality differs |
18 |
> per-person and language. Some people really dislike AA (requires |
19 |
> different fonts to be good), others use different types of displays, |
20 |
> etc. And not latin language users usually know that they need extra |
21 |
> packs to have decent support, don't expect anything non-latin to look |
22 |
> good by default atm. |
23 |
|
24 |
yeah, that's a big issue actually, but that is related to the i18n problem. |
25 |
That is, there is no step in the installation to choose your localization, so |
26 |
that everything takes it in account. pauldv told me it requires changes in |
27 |
portage. |
28 |
|
29 |
For the subjective way of testing, of course you are right, but you can test |
30 |
gentoo by default, then other distro by default, or windows or other OS by |
31 |
default (for those who have them). So for the same person, you'll be able to |
32 |
say : this is better than that... |
33 |
|
34 |
That's only theoric, because that involve a lot of testing (test gentoo, 2 |
35 |
other distros, windows and macos) and multiple testers (from various |
36 |
locations). |
37 |
|
38 |
Maybe we could ask non western testers to help. |
39 |
|
40 |
> |
41 |
>> - go through default available fonts (after having emerged kde and gnome), and |
42 |
>> list the ugliest ones |
43 |
> |
44 |
> Again this is mostly a personal thing and it currently also depends on |
45 |
> how you install xfree (this is in flux). |
46 |
|
47 |
in flux ? |
48 |
|
49 |
> |
50 |
>> - check the fontconfig, xft configurations |
51 |
>> - list known software that doesn't use the good font systems. |
52 |
> |
53 |
> That is not something up to us really, i don't feel it is our duty to |
54 |
> make legacy applications look good, what matters to me is to get a |
55 |
> current desktop (KDE/GNOME/XFCE4) reasonably ok/consistent looking |
56 |
> fontwise (for as far as it isn't). |
57 |
|
58 |
hmm, what is our duty then? what are the applications that we should check the |
59 |
look? In addition, I don't want us to correct them, but only to test them, see |
60 |
if a problem is general or only on 3 ebuilds, sadly used by a big amount of |
61 |
people. |
62 |
|
63 |
> |
64 |
>> Whith that done we'll be able to see where the problems are, wnd decide if we |
65 |
>> want to : |
66 |
>> - wait |
67 |
>> - try to get new fonts (many additional set of fonts by default) |
68 |
>> - change font configuration |
69 |
>> - change software so that they use latest technology (I have seen in the past |
70 |
>> some patchs to make this and that use freetype2, I think OpenOffice had such a |
71 |
>> patch, but I thougt it was in the main now) |
72 |
> |
73 |
> It uses freetype2 allright, but it's own copy. |
74 |
> |
75 |
|
76 |
ok |
77 |
|
78 |
>> In addition, we can think of making font managment easy for the user. (I wrote |
79 |
>> the font managment tool for mandrakeLinux, he had some working features, but |
80 |
>> uses old font tools). |
81 |
> |
82 |
> Ehm, no please. Config defaults should be good enough, users should not |
83 |
> be exposed to this via another GUI. Gnome already has a sufficient font |
84 |
> settings panel and ways to install fonts, so does KDE to my knowledge. I |
85 |
> don't like more ways to set the same thing on the same level (in this |
86 |
> case on GUI level), it is confusing. |
87 |
> |
88 |
>> btw do we have i18n/fonts gurus @ gentoo? |
89 |
> |
90 |
> a few i18n wannabees.. but they're not the most active devs. I'm |
91 |
> supposed to be the font guru cause i've handled bugs/updates in these |
92 |
> things for some time and did most of the xft2 move coordination/work. |
93 |
|
94 |
good ! hello guru :) |
95 |
|
96 |
> |
97 |
> Although they are connected, setting up fonts has little to do with |
98 |
> i18n. |
99 |
|
100 |
well, I'm looking for the way to see if the fonts look right in various |
101 |
language. We can ask volunteers to do that, but it'll take time. If one person |
102 |
has good knowledge of i18n he might already cover 80% of validation |
103 |
|
104 |
-- |
105 |
dams |
106 |
|
107 |
-- |
108 |
gentoo-desktop-research@g.o mailing list |