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List Archive: gentoo-desktop-research
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To: gentoo-desktop-research@g.o
From: dams@...
Subject: Re: One research problem we could research
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 16:46:29 +0200
foser <foser@g.o> said:

> On Thu, 2003-10-09 at 16:09, dams@... wrote:
>> If I see correctly, the things that makes ugly fonts :
>> 
>> - bad looking fonts
>> - missing fonts (so it uses not suited ones)
>> - badly configured xft*/fontconfig
>> - software not using last freetype/xft ...
>> 
>> ( feel free to add reasons if I missed som)
>> 
>> So, to clarify, we could :
>> - run some test to see if fonts are ugly in common use in different languages
>> (I'll do some test cause I have a fresh gentoo)
>
> Here you already have a problem, the perception of font quality differs
> per-person and language. Some people really dislike AA (requires
> different fonts to be good), others use different types of displays,
> etc. And not latin language users usually know that they need extra
> packs to have decent support, don't expect anything non-latin to look
> good by default atm.

yeah, that's a big issue actually, but that is related to the i18n problem.
That is, there is no step in the installation to choose your localization, so
that everything takes it in account. pauldv told me it requires changes in
portage.

For the subjective way of testing, of course you are right, but you can test
gentoo by default, then other distro by default, or windows or other OS by
default (for those who have them). So for the same person, you'll be able to
say : this is better than that...

That's only theoric, because that involve a lot of testing (test gentoo, 2
other distros, windows and macos) and multiple testers (from various
locations).

Maybe we could ask non western testers to help.

>
>> - go through default available fonts (after having emerged kde and gnome), and
>> list the ugliest ones
>
> Again this is mostly a personal thing and it currently also depends on
> how you install xfree (this is in flux).

in flux ?

>
>> - check the fontconfig, xft configurations
>> - list known software that doesn't use the good font systems.
>
> That is not something up to us really, i don't feel it is our duty to
> make legacy applications look good, what matters to me is to get a
> current desktop (KDE/GNOME/XFCE4) reasonably ok/consistent looking
> fontwise (for as far as it isn't).

hmm, what is our duty then? what are the applications that we should check the
look? In addition, I don't want us to correct them, but only to test them, see
if a problem is general or only on 3 ebuilds, sadly used by a big amount of
people.

>
>> Whith that done we'll be able to see where the problems are, wnd decide if we
>> want to :
>> - wait
>> - try to get new fonts (many additional set of fonts by default)
>> - change font configuration
>> - change software so that they use latest technology (I have seen in the past
>> some patchs to make this and that use freetype2, I think OpenOffice had such a
>> patch, but I thougt it was in the main now)
>
> It uses freetype2 allright, but it's own copy.
>

ok

>> In addition, we can think of making font managment easy for the user. (I wrote
>> the font managment tool for mandrakeLinux, he had some working features, but
>> uses old font tools).
>
> Ehm, no please. Config defaults should be good enough, users should not
> be exposed to this via another GUI. Gnome already has a sufficient font
> settings panel and ways to install fonts, so does KDE to my knowledge. I
> don't like more ways to set the same thing on the same level (in this
> case on GUI level), it is confusing.
>
>> btw do we have i18n/fonts gurus @ gentoo?
>
> a few i18n wannabees.. but they're not the most active devs. I'm
> supposed to be the font guru cause i've handled bugs/updates in these
> things for some time and did most of the xft2 move coordination/work.

good ! hello guru :)

>
> Although they are connected, setting up fonts has little to do with
> i18n.

well, I'm looking for the way to see if the fonts look right in various
language. We can ask volunteers to do that, but it'll take time. If one person
has good knowledge of i18n he might already cover 80% of validation

-- 
dams

--
gentoo-desktop-research@g.o mailing list

Replies:
Re: One research problem we could research
-- foser
References:
One research problem we could research
-- Paul de Vrieze
Re: One research problem we could research
-- foser
Re: One research problem we could research
-- Paul de Vrieze
Re: One research problem we could research
-- foser
Re: One research problem we could research
-- dams
Re: One research problem we could research
-- foser
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