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Duncan wrote: |
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> Tomáš Chvátal <scarabeus@g.o> posted |
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> 200904271103.08247.scarabeus@g.o, excerpted below, on Mon, 27 Apr |
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> 2009 11:03:08 +0200: |
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> |
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>> Dne pondělí 27 Duben 2009 10:59:46 Jan Kundrát napsal(a): |
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>>> Tomáš Chvátal wrote: |
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>>>> Dne pondělí 27 Duben 2009 10:45:49 Alexey Shvetsov napsal(a): |
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>>>>> Hi all! |
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>>>>> I think its better to split kde use flag into 2 new use flags kde3 |
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>>>>> and kde4 so it will not confuse users =) |
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>>>> As we spoke earlier with others on irc: kde3 stuff = kde3 useflag |
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>>>> kde4 stuff (or any newest kde which is around) = kde useflag where if |
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>>>> kde4 gets outdated it will get kde4 useflag. |
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>>> Is there any single package that supports both KDE3 and KDE4? |
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>> Some are, |
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>> The issue is currently that user globaly enable kde and now with for |
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>> example subversion he gets pulled kde4. |
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> |
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> Before the discussion goes too far, please please either go back and |
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> check the dev-list archives or talk to some of the devs that have been |
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> around for awhile. It's relatively easy to both confuse users and make |
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> further version changes MUCH more difficult than they need to be, and |
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> looking thru the archives will provide much material on all the angst |
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> that previous policies generated by not getting it right. |
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|
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Duncan, |
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|
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although I'm not that "old", I've been around for a while now. |
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As I've said to Theo and Thomas before, we should use the kde use flag |
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for general KDE support - if an app supports more than one version, we |
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should enable the support for the latest version. We should use |
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kde-<major-version> for choosing a specific version. |
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I understand a "sliding" version use flag might be confusing for users |
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(at one point kde would mean KDE-3.*, later KDE-4 and one day KDE-6), |
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but I think it has some advantages as it allows users to have packages |
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with KDE support (even when they work against newer versions) just by |
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keep using the same use flag and won't have to update it from kde3, to |
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kde4, ... kdeN. One important point here is that the kde* use flags are |
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used by packages outside of kde-base/*, so that doesn't affect directly |
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the KDE version the user is running - the "kdeprefix" use flag is for |
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the time being our answer to the concern about being able to have more |
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than one KDE version around (which might be required for packages that |
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don't work with the latest version - k3b anyone?) |
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|
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> In particular, don't make the mistake gtk/gtk2 did for awhile. USE=gtk |
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> indicated a general desire to have gtk (of any version) support, while |
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> USE=gtk2 indicated that gtk2 should be favored over gtk1, otherwise, gtk1 |
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> was the default. That policy, which looked quite reasonable when gtk2 |
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> was new and experimental, ended up boxing them into a corner as gtk2 |
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> improved and became the dominant version, while gtk1 grew stale and was |
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> eventually deprecated in the Gentoo tree and later masked and ultimately |
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> removed (along with any packages, xmms being one of the most popular, |
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> that hadn't upgraded to gtk2 by then), and they ultimately ended up |
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> changing it in a way that couldn't be anything /but/ rough for some users. |
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> |
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> But even before that it was a pain, because it didn't follow the |
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> intuitive idea that USE=gtk meant gtk1 support while USE=gtk2 meant gtk2 |
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> support. New users very often enabled gtk2 without enabling gtk, |
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> believing they were expressing a desire for gtk2 support but NOT gtk1, |
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> when instead what it was really expressing was, don't support gtk (of any |
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> version) unless you have to, but if it's mandatory and there's a choice, |
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> choose gtk2 over gtk1. |
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> |
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> Unfortunately there's few if any Gentoo/KDE devs remaining around from |
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> that time. I'm not sure about Gentoo/GNOME or Gentoo/GTK. However, note |
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> that such USE flag changes will be global in any case due to their |
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> popularity, and thus should be discussed on the dev list and if I'm not |
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> mistaken, run by council. I'm not sure about the others, but Donnie was |
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> certainly around at the time, and is on council so his opinion will |
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> certainly matter in any case. It's thus worth getting his input and |
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> those of any others that ware around then to remember, as it could well |
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> prevent some needless palm-to-forehead, "how could they have done that |
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> /again/ sometime in the future. |
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|
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The use flags for KDE apps are in the end the responsibility of the KDE |
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team. However, we do want and value other inputs and will mail the dev |
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ml before doing any changes. Just to be clear, this does not require any |
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"vote by" or "approval from" the council. |
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|
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|
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- -- |
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Regards, |
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|
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Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org |
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Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / SPARC / KDE |
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