[gentoo-desktop] Re: Kde 3 Future/Status

[Duncan]

Tomáš Chvátal posted on Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:16:53 +0200 as excerpted:

> PROBLEMS:
> The KDE project (upstream) mostly stopped working on KDE-3.5 around 2
> years ago and has since dropped any support for that branch of KDE. As
> such, no one is auditing the code or fixing bugs caused by updates of
> deps and Gentoo is unable to track security patches and to fix issues
> related to updates in deps such as gcc or glibc. Also, almost all kde3
> packages will fail with new autotools (autoconf-2.64) (so far masked),
> and they will require quite a few patches to fix KDE autotools stuff
> (admin/ files).

Could you point me to anything definitive saying 3.5 is no longer 
supported, an official page on the KDE site, something on one of their 
lists, a blog posting, an email that can be made public, anything?

Because I asked on the kde general list [1], quoting Gentoo/KDE's 
statement (at the time, I've not checked if it has been updated) in the 
KDE Guide [2]:

> KDE 3 is no longer maintained by upstream,
> with 3.5.10 being their last release.

I said I was asking as that conflicted with what asegio had blogged a 
year earlier, saying there'd be support as long as there were users. [3]

Anne Wilson, KDE list spokesperson apparent [4], along with some others, 
basically contradicted the public Gentoo/KDE statement, saying that while 
some bugs for particular kde3 apps are now being closed as unmaintained, 
because kde doesn't force devs to work on older versions as they move on 
with life, that's not the case with kde3 as a whole, and while there's no 
further development going on, security bugs and the like are going to be 
supported for some time.[5]  Of course "security-bug-only" support is NOT 
the type of support ASegio's blog was leading users to expect.

Someone else in the thread also points out that KDE's site (at the time, 
has it updated after 4.3?) said that kde 4.2 was recommended for normal 
users, but kde 3.5 was still recommended for "conservative" users [6], 
those very likely to be concerned about ongoing support.


So from a user perspective, it seems like they're really trying to have 
it both ways, claiming continued support when it simply isn't happening, 
and effectively putting their fingers in their ears and screaming "na na 
na" every time someone tries to point it out, until they give up and go 
away, while continuing to complain about the issue coming up again and 
again ("for the 100th time", according to Lydia Pintscher, kde/amarok/
kubuntu dev, @ [7]).

As I said in a reply, without "a clear and definitive statement on 
continuing kde 3 support," "what's apparently come up 100 times is likely 
to come up 100 more..."  But while Gentoo has provided just such a 
statement, I've yet to see such a "clear and definitive statement" from 
upstream, despite enduring that "Nah na na" effect thru that whole 
thread, with statements on both sides of the fence, thus nothing really 
clear and definitive, tho one certainly gets a feeling for the general 
trend.

Now with this post here, it appears KDE's not even claiming security 
support any more.  Yet they clearly still have users, so as I pointed out 
(to much protest) in the thread, I guess [K]Ubuntu was correct in 
deciding not to include kde3 in its LTS, with kde4 clearly not yet ready 
either, despite ASegio's claim: "KDE3 will remain supported for years. 
Why? Because there are users." ([1] quoting [3] again.)

So as I asked above, is there a definitive upstream KDE statement that 
they:

> dropped any support for [the 3.5] branch of KDE. [N]o one is auditing
> the code or fixing bugs caused by updates of deps and Gentoo is unable
> to track security patches and to fix issues related to updates in deps
> such as gcc or glibc.

Because while I've seen Gentoo/KDE statements to that effect, I've been 
unable to find definitive upstream KDE statements to that effect, and 
I've both looked and asked upstream myself.  Thus, if you could provide 
such a statement, it would be a HUGE help.

[All that said, with 4.3,0, I've actually finished the switch myself and 
finally unmerged 3.5.10 just a day or two ago.  There's still a decent 
amount of broken stuff like global multi-key hotkeys and a ksysguard that 
won't properly obey or retain its settings, but I've found workarounds 
for enough of them, that as an "early adopter", I find kde4 at least 
usably functional now, even if formerly major parts of my work flow 
functionality remain "substantially broken", and have to be worked 
around, and even if it did take me ~80 hours of work to reconfigure it so 
that it actually /is/ at least usable at what on most /other/ projects 
would be called a beta or first release candidate level.  Maybe by what 
KDE calls 4.5, we'll actually be reaching the x.0 level for /most/ 
projects, but I've always enjoyed being leading sometimes bleeding edge, 
and that's exactly where kde4 is now, with 4.3, so it's actually usable 
for me, now, even if that actual usability /does/ involve a number of big 
workarounds for still broken functionality that worked well enough in 
previous versions to have become relied upon in the course of ordinary 
workflow.]

.....
Footnotes:

[1] What's the official status of 3.5.x, anyway? Thread starter:
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.kde.general/20947

[2] Gentoo/KDE Gentoo KDE Guide:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/kde/kde4-guide.xml

[3] http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/01/talking-bluntly.html

[4] Anne Wilson: At least, she has claimed to speak for KDE, threatening 
to ban posters, etc, based on the actions of some KDE committee.  It 
wasn't me that got that threat so I'd prefer not to post details, but I 
have a copy of the email and could probably get permission to post it 
from the guy who did get threatened, if needed.

[5] See the entire thread, but particularly:
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.kde.general/20948
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.kde.general/20950
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.kde.general/20958
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.kde.general/20965
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.kde.general/20967
etc...

[6] http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.kde.general/20963

[7] http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.kde.general/20958

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman