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Zeerak Mustafa Waseem posted on Sun, 04 Apr 2010 22:19:06 +0200 as |
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excerpted: |
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> esOn Sat, Apr 03, 2010 at 07:33:53AM -0400, Richard Freeman wrote: |
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|
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>> I really think that the Gentoo recruitment process needs improvement. |
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>> Right now it seems like a LOT of effort is required both to become a |
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>> Gentoo dev and to help somebody become a Gentoo dev. That means we |
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>> have great people, but not many of them. |
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|
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I like that last sentence summation. It's perhaps optimistic, but does |
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bring into sharp focus both a positive and a negative of the current |
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process. |
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|
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>> I think the problem is that our recruitment process uses the ability to |
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>> answer complex technical and organizational questions as a way to |
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>> assess maturity. I think that maturity is far more important than |
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>> technical skill in a distro - a mature person will recognize their own |
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>> limitations and exercise due diligence when stepping outside of them. |
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>> Instead of playing 20 questions and going back and forth with recruits, |
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>> maybe a better approach would be to cut down the questions dramatically |
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>> (or more clearly put their answers in the documentation), and then use |
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>> other approaches like references and interviews. A new recruit might |
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>> be given the names of 5 devs that they will need to interview with for |
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>> 30-60 minutes by phone or IRC (preference on phone), and they will need |
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>> to submit references, who will be contacted. When we hire people at |
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>> work we don't play trivial pursuit with them, we use an interview to |
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>> get a feel for what they're like and how they handle situations, and we |
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>> screen resumes and references to determine experience. I'm sure any of |
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>> the professional linux distros would work in the same way, but perhaps |
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>> somebody should ask around and see how it is done elsewhere. |
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>> |
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>> |
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> I'm not exactly sure how you'd want the references to work, I mean, as |
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> in prior jobs/projects worked on? I know that I'd like to help out with |
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> development, but as it stands I don't think I have the necessary skills |
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> (various programming language etc), so that is something I'm working on. |
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|
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I expect rich0 had in mind (tho I won't claim to speak for him) something |
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a bit broader when referring to references. Certainly, in the FLOSS world |
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many people are self-taught to some degree or another, and many are |
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volunteers, so references in the traditional job sense may not be |
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available. |
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|
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But in the FLOSS world, the term is indeed often used in a broader sense. |
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For instance, if I were to "apply", I'd list my long-time involvement on |
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the pan (Internet news client) lists, where my involvement hasn't been as |
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much in the technical sense but in helping out users, and ideally, in |
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being an interface between users and devs such that devs need spend less |
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time helping users and can spend more time developing. =:^) |
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|
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In Gentoo, not only my record of involvement on the amd64 list and here |
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(I've followed the dev list, as much to get a heads-up on what's coming |
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before it hits as anything else, since 2004.0, before I even had Gentoo |
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successfully installed, as that wasn't until 2004.1), but on bugs.gentoo. |
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|
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Even if those aren't particularly technical references, they absolutely |
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demonstrate consistency and integrity in community contribution. Those |
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references demonstrate integrity, in terms both of length of commitment, |
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and security-wise. If I'm a bad guy, I must be a pretty **** patient one! |
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=:^) |
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|
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Others won't have that length of service to point to, but they have an IRC |
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handle that has come to be identified with cooperativeness and willingness |
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to help and to learn. Bugday participation is a very solid reference, as |
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is work on one of the overlays with reasonably heavy community |
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involvement, be it a specialized one like the java or kde overlays, or a |
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couple of ebuilds on sunrise. There's also the forums, with their very |
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direct and practical mechanism for recognizing frequent and helpful |
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posters, and lets not forget the reference points a well developed doc |
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submission (and docs takes plain text submissions too, I'm told, right |
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nightmorph?) is going to be worth. These sorts of references can be |
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developed in perhaps six months or so, rather less if you've already a |
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partially developed docs addition in mind. |
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|
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> As a consequence I naturally don't have any references (and might not by |
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> the time I feel ready) but that wouldn't necessarily mean that I'm not |
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> qualified to be working as a dev. Also one could imagine that a number |
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> of other people without references, but the necessary qualifications |
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> might think "To hell with this, I'll just put my effots somewhere else". |
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|
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Keep in mind that for many of the above, the six months to the |
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establishment of a reasonable record may be well underway before one ever |
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decides to take their Gentoo contributions to the next level. As with |
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character and community references for a job or rental/lease, if you're |
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finding yourself having to deliberately develop them, you're probably |
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going about it the wrong way -- by the time you /need/ them, you should |
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find you just /have/ them, or something's wrong. |
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IOW, just the fact of this one post is already contributing to the |
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formation of a reference of community involvement. =:^) |
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> Another thing, you write that phone is preferred but I know that I act |
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> relaxed in text with new people and as myself. Whereas on the phone I |
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> hold back a bit, and don't really act myself. So perhaps the preference |
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> should be the manner in which the one being interviewed is more |
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> comfortable with and will act more naturally. |
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|
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Agreed. |
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It's interesting, as I'm rather the opposite of you. Personal experience |
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has demonstrated well enough to me that I don't do well in instant text |
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contexts, be it texting/IM/IRC. OTOH, I'm reasonably comfortable on the |
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phone (and VoIP is nice =:^), and on the "async" messaging protocols such |
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as email/lists/newsgroups/forums, etc, with newsgroups being a strong |
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favorite. |
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|
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Some months, <shrug> maybe a year ago, now, someone mentioned (here) that |
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an IRC interview was a requirement for Gentoo devhood. I followed up on |
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that, asking about it, and was basically told that if someone's not |
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willing to do even just the one IRC interview, they may as well not |
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bother, Gentoo's simply not interested in them as a dev, period. The |
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position was that refusing to do just that one session, if that's all you |
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wanted to do, was simply being petty. |
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|
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Well, I was actually rather glad to get that clarified, because from the |
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beginning I've always tried to contribute what I could, and always figured |
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the logical end result of that, if I ever got there, was that I'd probably |
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end up a Gentoo dev at some point. I've already been around for six |
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years, and see no reason I'd not be around in double that again, 12 years |
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out, if Gentoo's still active by then. But I'm simply not going to waste |
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my time with stuff I know I'm terrible at just to satisfy some hoop-jump |
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requirement, when there's way more FLOSS community projects begging for my |
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time than I have time to give them. |
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|
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So maybe I AM being petty and ridiculous in refusing that hoop-jump. But |
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it seems to me the shoe fits just as well on the other foot, too. But |
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OTOH, maybe IRC /is/ a vital skill for a Gentoo dev, thus justifying that |
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hoop. Regardless, I'm glad I know it now, as now, whenever I read about |
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the severe lack of devs, I know Gentoo can't use me in that capacity |
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anyway, so I don't have to think about it any more. I can be just a user |
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and contribute where I can, here and elsewhere. And as any other user, if |
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Gentoo ultimately goes down the tubes due to lack of dev interest, well |
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<shrug>, it's too bad I guess, but as with most users, I'll eventually |
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find another distribution. And I /am/ reading good things about Arch, |
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lately. =:^) |
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|
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But meanwhile, Gentoo remains, I believe, the best possible match for me |
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/as/ a "power user"; one now affirmed in that status; one who actually |
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appreciates the ability to control what's on his system and how the |
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components interact with each other at a level of detail that's difficult |
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or impossible to get with most distributions. If as a Gentoo user it's |
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going to be, a Gentoo user I've been for six years and a Gentoo user I may |
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very well be in another six years, doubled, tripled even, if Gentoo's |
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still around for me by then... |
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|
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Or maybe this thread'll trigger some change, and I'll eventually end up a |
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Gentoo dev, with a bigger bit than it presently seems in shaping the |
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possibility of having a healthy Gentoo a dozen years from now. User or |
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dev, doesn't matter. If my contributions help the chances of there being |
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a healthy Gentoo for me to still be using a dozen years from now, I'm |
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happy. =:^) Otherwise, there's certainly other places and projects |
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that'll welcome those contributions, and if Gentoo dies due to lack of |
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interest from those deemed qualified, holding the fort until the end, |
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well, there's other distributions. too, and I'm sure I'll find a place as |
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a user of one of them. |
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|
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-- |
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Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. |
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- |
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and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman |