Re: Re: [gentoo-dev] Going against co-maintainer's wishes (ref. bug 412697)

[Daniel Campbell]

On 05/25/2013 02:53 PM, Anthony G. Basile wrote:
> On 05/25/2013 02:13 PM, Markos Chandras wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA512
>>
>> On 05/25/2013 05:14 PM, Ben de Groot wrote:
>>> But if a co-maintainer pushes through a change that I oppose, then
>>> working together becomes quite difficult. In this case I opted to
>>> give up maintainership.
>>>
>> Ben,
>>
>> We've been working together, in the same team(s), for more than 4
>> years and we never had a single problem in co-maintaining packages. I
>> would never expected you to make so much noise because I committed a
>> file (yes a file, *not* a patch) that changes absolutely *nothing* to
>> existing users but it helps all those users who want to use systemd.
>>
>> I am very disappointed and confused.
>>
>> You should have known me better by now.
>>
>> - -- Regards,
>> Markos Chandras - Gentoo Linux Developer
>> http://dev.gentoo.org/~hwoarang
>>
>
> We are moving too quickly on bug #448882 ([Tracker] packages not
> providing systemd units).  We should come to better consensus on systemd
> integration and we were getting there with the idea of INSTALL_MASK. I
> don't know that it is a working solution yet.  I have to oppose adding
> unit files unless we have a way to opt out for reasons I gave earlier,
> regarding embedded systems where one needs to conserve space
> aggressively.  And we may have found a way to do so without cluttering
> ebuilds with USE flags.
>
> Can I ask the systemd people to design a working solution for opting
> out?  I can't support this initiative without such a solution and I
> would be happy to work with the systemd people to reach it, ie I'll test.
>

I'm not a dev (though I would like to be...), but consider me interested
in testing an opt-out method as well. I'm going to try INSTALL_MASK and
see what happens. I'm not sure if any of my packages have systemd units
yet, though.

As far as resisting systemd, why is that so bad? Vertical integration is
generally a bad idea with the sole exception of when your use case(s)
line up perfectly with the ivory tower and you need all of the offered
features. If Gentoo falls to systemd, there will literally be no
Linux-based distros left to prevent it from taking over, and as a result
Linux-based systems will become more and more tightly integrated,
killing the choice that Gentoo truly stands for and homogenizing everything.

That said, I realize that unit files don't intrude much on choice, and
I'm happy that there is discussion on finding ways around it and making
everyone happy (like INSTALL_MASK) instead of pushing ideas on users and
telling them to deal with it.

Out of curiosity though, is there a document that outlines how Gentoo
Council members are chosen, when/if decisions can be revisited, and/or
if a member's views are audited for neutrality? I'm somewhat interested
in the way decisions are made within Gentoo.