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David Nielsen wrote: |
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> Frankly people like you kill every possible joy I might get out of |
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> this - all you do is complain, not one word about the relative |
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> niceness of this project and what it could do for the state of the |
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> ebuilds. |
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|
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Okay, I will not let you toss around phrases such as 'people like you' |
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without throwing my hat in the ring. When I started reading this |
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thread, I was very optimisitc about the possibilities your project could |
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hold, and I personally think a user-managed project to track new ebuilds |
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would better than using developer resources. But when I look at this |
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reply, I can almost watch as your newly formed political island starts |
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sinking into the sea. Be careful before you start shaking things up.... |
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|
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> That being said - No, I didn't talk to anyone about it before going |
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> ahead, portage is gpl'ed, I can do what ever I want to it, and I |
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> intend to. I didn't want to announce anything untill it was off the |
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> ground because I think people spend FAR to much time talking and FAR |
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> to little time actually doing something. |
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|
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You are absolutely correct about portage being GPL'd. You can do |
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anything you want with it; however, the attitude you demonstrate here |
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will accomplish nothing but to alienate you from the developer |
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community. I personally believe you've just done a great disservice to |
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your project by saying these things, as your statement here amounts to |
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nothing less than a thinly veiled threat to fork Gentoo. I'm pretty |
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sure I speak for all the other devs when I say: go for it. |
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|
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> I didn't expect it to take off this fast, we have been going for a |
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> few days, and there are now several ebuilds waiting in queue to be |
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> comfirmed working once that has happened they will be forwarded to |
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> bugzilla. (This all written in the guidelines on the forum, but I'm |
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> guessing you didn't even take your time to read that). |
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|
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The problem with your system is one of trust. Developers do *not* |
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blindly trust submissions of new ebuilds. Even if your system works |
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perfectly to improve the quality of Bugzilla submissions, it will take |
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time for the project to earn the trust of the Gentoo developers. Your |
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starting off by implying 'people like you' are part of the problem will |
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make it more difficult (if only a little) for you to find support for |
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those submissions. |
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|
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I just want everyone to understand that that there are more than |
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technical issues at play here; the process for getting something into |
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Portage involves more than technical discussion or review - it requires |
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getting along with the project leaders, demonstrating to them that you |
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know what you are doing, and contributing only what the majority of |
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developers are willing to support. |
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|
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Most of the developers are working their butts off behind the scene - I |
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personally put in no less than 60 hours a week on Gentoo, improving it |
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is now my full-time, self-employed job. All of the cross-compiling and |
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embedded support that I am presently developing with and for Gentoo is |
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GPL'd and available, and there are others that manage to contribute far |
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more than me (both visible and behind the scenes). |
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|
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There is far more work being done by developers than can be given |
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credit, so complaints of this nature that appear to come out of nowhere |
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are tantamont to blasphemy and more than enough to give us ulcers. |
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|
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All this coming from someone that (a) would be willing to support your |
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project from the "inside" and (b) is helping with the back-end services |
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that could make it feasible from a QA standpoint. In other words, |
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someone that you really want to have on your team. You can easily fix |
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this with me, but I want this to be a lesson to the wider community: |
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|
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The way that individuals interact, both politically and socially, with |
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the Gentoo culture matters more than anything that you can bring into |
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it. In other words, a technical solution is only welcome when it does |
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not disrupt the culture - the culture must be ready for the solution. |
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Put more broadly: we don't want you playing in our sandbox if you don't |
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want to play nice. THIS GOT ME KICKED OUT OF GENTOO, LISTEN TO ME! |
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|
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The point being that, as much as many of us might love the idea of your |
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project, we are not ready to implement it today. It will be too |
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distruptive to the existing culture; reform can not happen overnight. |
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In that respect, discussion this subject further on these lists is *not* |
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appropriat - it will only cause further distraction and disruption. |
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|
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Please, I want this thread to end here and now, and I thought very |
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carefully about whether I should send it at all. Flame me personally |
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but keep it off the list. If my sentiments do not truly reflect those |
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of "management", then let them put in any final words. |
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|
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Cheers, |
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|
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Zach Welch |
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Gentoo Developer |
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|
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|
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-- |
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gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list |