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On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 11:09 AM, <waltdnes@××××××××.org> wrote: |
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> On Sat, Apr 09, 2016 at 07:11:31AM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote |
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> |
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>> It was simply a recognition that we were already in a state where |
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>> booting a system without /usr mounted early can cause problems. |
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> |
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> For certain edge cases... yes. |
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|
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Edge cases? According to whom? |
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|
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> But they were already using initramfs |
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> or merging /usr into /. I'm talking about the 95% who don't really need |
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> it. |
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|
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Do you have *ANY* source for that 95%? |
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|
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> |
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>> I never really got the mentality that using an initramfs is a burden. |
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> |
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> One more piece of software that can go wrong. You have to |
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> maintain+configure it; e.g. sync software and library versions with |
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> what's on the rest of the system. |
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|
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Everything can go wrong; an initramfs is actually a really easy piece |
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of software to automatize and debug if it goes wrong. |
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|
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>> An initramfs is just a secondary bootloader for userspace. I almost |
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>> always use them even if I'm just booting a VM with a single partition |
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>> on it. If something goes wrong you can fall back to a shell in the |
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>> initramfs and it is like having a rescue disk built into your system |
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>> disk. |
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> |
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> There is single-user mode for rescue. |
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|
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Which could fail if, for some reason, you need *something* from /usr |
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and it hasn't been mounted. And *something* is becoming *anything*, |
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whether you like it or not. |
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|
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>> For a more complex setup it is much more robust than relying on |
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>> the kernel to find your root, and it also lets you build with a more |
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>> module-based kernel, which has some benefits as well even if you build |
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>> kernels tailored to each host. |
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> |
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> I have "Production" and "Experimental" entries in my LILO menu. A new |
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> kernel is always set up as the "Experimental" entry. After running |
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> several days without problems, I run a script which copies the data from |
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> the "Experimental" portion to "Production". |
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|
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You use LILO. That means, you don't use UEFI. That means, almost |
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certainly you don't use recent hardware. |
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|
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Walter, *YOU* are the 5% edge case. Many people are running UEFI only |
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hardware, and the number will only increase, since BIOS *is* dead. |
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|
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> The only time my system had problems "finding root" was years ago when |
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> the switch from /dev/hd* to /dev/sd* took place. The "Experimental" |
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> boot with the new kernel died. I booted "Production", read the mailing |
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> list, changed "hd" to "sd" for the "Experimental" entry, and rebooted. |
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> After several days without problems, I made the same change to the |
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> "Production" entry, and copied the "Experimental" portion to |
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> "Production". |
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|
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That was the only time *FOR YOU*. But, as I stated above, you are the |
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5% edge case; the Gentoo devs need to think about the general case, |
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starting with their own systems so they can do their jobs. I bet most |
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of them are on UEFI. |
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|
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Nobody anywhere is telling you what to do with your systems (nor would |
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they in the future). The Gentoo devs only are saying that if by having |
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separated /usr without an initramfs, you risk screwing your system, |
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and if that happens, you are on you own. |
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|
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Regards. |
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-- |
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Dr. Canek Peláez Valdés |
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Profesor de Carrera Asociado C |
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Departamento de Matemáticas |
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Facultad de Ciencias |
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Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México |