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This is just getting out of hand... |
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|
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I announce a project and suddenly I'm the antichrist. |
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|
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I did not treated to fork portage anywhere - I can't even code python |
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for crying out loud. |
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|
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Okay, the main issue seems to be getting along with developers. |
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|
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Here's a little background, I have Tourette' syndrome and I'm on |
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antidepressants following an attempt at taking my life, bare with me I |
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have a short fuse - I take shit all day. |
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|
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Here's what makes me happy, getting good ideas, and this project seemed |
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like a good idea - So I took a chance, I never expected the project to |
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take off the way it did, I figured I would fix up a few critical ebuilds |
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a week and submit them to Bugzilla. It seems we need a quicker solution |
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without compromising the stability of portage as a whole - we don't want |
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broken shit in there do we? |
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|
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We also need an agreement on Janitorial suggestions on portage and USE |
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flag improvements - If we are to review all ebuilds we probably need to |
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have an easy way to debating new USE flags other than bugzilla. |
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|
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Here's the plan as laid out in advance: |
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|
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We plan to release a tarball once a week with new ebuilds, now we are |
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not asking for them to just go directly into portage, so there needs to |
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be some developer review time going on also if possible - we also wanna |
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make sure we waste as little time as possible right? |
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|
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The plan has also always been to keep the project extremely open, that's |
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why we have the forum, it's an exellent way of keeping track of what |
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people are doing and what concerns we might have. We could simply cry |
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"help" when we need some assistance which might work fine. There |
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shouldn't be a exceedingly great need for developers input when talking |
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just ebuilds, we are talking a new USE flag every now and again maybe. |
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|
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As for future ideas for portage development, I would suggest checking |
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the forum every now and again, there are some extremely wacky people |
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throwing around ideas in there, once an idea is developed we will submit |
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it to gentoo-dev for debating. |
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|
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deal ? |
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|
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Lovechild |
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|
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Oh the janitor forums are down for the time being, I'm unaware of the |
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reason - Slougi is in charge of that. |
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|
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On Sun, 2003-05-11 at 23:14, Zach Welch wrote: |
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> David Nielsen wrote: |
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> > Frankly people like you kill every possible joy I might get out of |
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> > this - all you do is complain, not one word about the relative |
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> > niceness of this project and what it could do for the state of the |
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> > ebuilds. |
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> |
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> Okay, I will not let you toss around phrases such as 'people like you' |
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> without throwing my hat in the ring. When I started reading this |
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> thread, I was very optimisitc about the possibilities your project |
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could |
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> hold, and I personally think a user-managed project to track new |
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ebuilds |
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> would better than using developer resources. But when I look at this |
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> reply, I can almost watch as your newly formed political island starts |
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> sinking into the sea. Be careful before you start shaking things |
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up.... |
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> |
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> > That being said - No, I didn't talk to anyone about it before going |
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> > ahead, portage is gpl'ed, I can do what ever I want to it, and I |
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> > intend to. I didn't want to announce anything untill it was off the |
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> > ground because I think people spend FAR to much time talking and |
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FAR |
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> > to little time actually doing something. |
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> |
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> You are absolutely correct about portage being GPL'd. You can do |
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> anything you want with it; however, the attitude you demonstrate here |
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> will accomplish nothing but to alienate you from the developer |
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> community. I personally believe you've just done a great disservice |
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to |
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> your project by saying these things, as your statement here amounts to |
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> nothing less than a thinly veiled threat to fork Gentoo. I'm pretty |
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> sure I speak for all the other devs when I say: go for it. |
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> |
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> > I didn't expect it to take off this fast, we have been going for a |
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> > few days, and there are now several ebuilds waiting in queue to be |
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> > comfirmed working once that has happened they will be forwarded to |
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> > bugzilla. (This all written in the guidelines on the forum, but I'm |
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> > guessing you didn't even take your time to read that). |
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> |
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> The problem with your system is one of trust. Developers do *not* |
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> blindly trust submissions of new ebuilds. Even if your system works |
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> perfectly to improve the quality of Bugzilla submissions, it will take |
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> time for the project to earn the trust of the Gentoo developers. Your |
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> starting off by implying 'people like you' are part of the problem |
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will |
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> make it more difficult (if only a little) for you to find support for |
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> those submissions. |
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> |
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> I just want everyone to understand that that there are more than |
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> technical issues at play here; the process for getting something into |
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> Portage involves more than technical discussion or review - it |
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requires |
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> getting along with the project leaders, demonstrating to them that you |
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> know what you are doing, and contributing only what the majority of |
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> developers are willing to support. |
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> |
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> Most of the developers are working their butts off behind the scene - |
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I |
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> personally put in no less than 60 hours a week on Gentoo, improving it |
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> is now my full-time, self-employed job. All of the cross-compiling |
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and |
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> embedded support that I am presently developing with and for Gentoo is |
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> GPL'd and available, and there are others that manage to contribute |
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far |
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> more than me (both visible and behind the scenes). |
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> |
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> There is far more work being done by developers than can be given |
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> credit, so complaints of this nature that appear to come out of |
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nowhere |
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> are tantamont to blasphemy and more than enough to give us ulcers. |
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> |
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> All this coming from someone that (a) would be willing to support your |
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> project from the "inside" and (b) is helping with the back-end |
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services |
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> that could make it feasible from a QA standpoint. In other words, |
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> someone that you really want to have on your team. You can easily fix |
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> this with me, but I want this to be a lesson to the wider community: |
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> |
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> The way that individuals interact, both politically and socially, with |
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> the Gentoo culture matters more than anything that you can bring into |
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> it. In other words, a technical solution is only welcome when it does |
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> not disrupt the culture - the culture must be ready for the solution. |
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> Put more broadly: we don't want you playing in our sandbox if you |
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don't |
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> want to play nice. THIS GOT ME KICKED OUT OF GENTOO, LISTEN TO ME! |
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> |
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> The point being that, as much as many of us might love the idea of |
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your |
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> project, we are not ready to implement it today. It will be too |
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> distruptive to the existing culture; reform can not happen overnight. |
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> In that respect, discussion this subject further on these lists is |
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*not* |
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> appropriat - it will only cause further distraction and disruption. |
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> |
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> Please, I want this thread to end here and now, and I thought very |
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> carefully about whether I should send it at all. Flame me personally |
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> but keep it off the list. If my sentiments do not truly reflect those |
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> of "management", then let them put in any final words. |
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> |
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> Cheers, |
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> |
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> Zach Welch |
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> Gentoo Developer |
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> |
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> |
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> -- |
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> gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list |
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|
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|
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-- |
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gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list |