Re: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Making systemd more accessible to "normal" users

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 3:03 AM, Daniel Campbell <dlcampbell@×××.com> wrote:
> On 05/19/2013 01:05 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>> On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Peter Stuge <peter@×××××.se> wrote:
>>> J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>>> I don't see how this will avoid the issue of a limited amount of
>>>> inodes.
>>>> That is what I usually run out of before the disk is full when
>>>> storing lots of smaller files.
>>>
>>> I guess the number of unit files is on the order of hundreds
>>
>> (Sorry, sent email before it was ready).
>>
>> Laptop running full GNOME:
>>
>> # find /usr/lib/systemd/system -type f | wc
>>     154     154    7012
>>
>> Server running Apache+MySQL+Mailman+Squid+Other services:
>>
>> # find /usr/lib/systemd/system -type f | wc
>>     121     121    5560
>>
>> And as you said, you can always use INSTALL_MASK. If 154 files are
>> going to deplete your inodes, I think your problem lies somewhere
>> else.
>>
>> Regards.
>> --
>> Canek Peláez Valdés
>> Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
>> Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
>>
>
> That's missing the point. If you don't run systemd, having unit files is
> pointless. Thankfully there's INSTALL_MASK and whatnot, but that seems
> like a hack instead of something more robust. Why include systemd unit
> files (by default, with no systemd USE flag, thanks to the council...)
> on a system that's not using it? 154 files isn't negligible unless
> you're flippant with your system and don't care about bloat. Unused
> software sitting around *is* a waste of disk-space.

Unit files are not software; they are data.

And I believe you are the one missing the point. I don't run OpenRC; I
don't need no files in /etc/init.d. But you don't see me (nor any
other systemd user) complaining about pointless scripts in
/etc/init.d. I just put /etc/init.d in INSTALL_MASK and go on with my
life.

Non-systemd users should do the same for files under /usr/lib/systemd,
if they really are that worried about systemd "infecting" their
systems. Complaining about a council-decided policy (and, I believe,
backed up by the developers that matter, including the OpenRC
maintainers) is just beating on a dead horse.

Get over it.

> Some people (like myself) came to Gentoo to avoid putting systemd on
> their systems and to make use of the great choice that Gentoo allows.
> This push to make systemd a "first level citizen" or whatever reeks of
> marketing.

If Gentoo is about choice, then systemd is one of those choices. And
systemd will become a first class citizen inside Gentoo, like it or
not. Support for it has been getting better and better, and more and
more Gentoo users are running with systemd.

If  some fundamentalists users don't want even one file in their
systems with "systemd" on their paths, they can install eudev/mdev,
put the necessary directories in INSTALL_MASK, and do the extra work.
If some other fundamentalists users (like myself) don't want even one
OpenRC related file on our systems, we can create an overlay to remove
the dependency of baselayout on OpenRC, put /etc/init.d in
INSTALL_MASK, and do the extra work.

Neither case covers the average systemd/OpenRC user, who doesn't care
about a few scattered files in /etc/init.d nor /usr/lib/systemd, and
just want to run her machine with the init system of her choice. If
Gentoo is really about choice.

> If there is desire among users for unit files, they can
> contact upstream or maintain their own set of unit files. It's not like
> they're hard to write.

So, Gentoo is about choice, but only for the choices you agree with. Great.

Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México