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On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 08:59:40AM +0000, Peter Stuge wrote: |
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> Daniel Campbell wrote: |
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> > On Sun, Dec 03, 2017 at 12:18:04AM +0100, Michał Górny wrote: |
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> > > I'd like to establish the following changes to the mailing lists: |
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> > > |
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> > > 1. Posting to gentoo-dev@ and gentoo-project@ mailing lists will be |
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> > > initially restricted to active Gentoo developers. |
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> > |
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> > I don't think this plan will have the effect you're going for, |
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> |
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> I agree, and I'll double down on my previous comment on this proposal: |
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> |
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> I consider the proposal to be the wrong solution. |
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> |
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> |
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> > but let's be honest here: the "RFC" is just a formality; the decision's |
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> > already been made. |
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> |
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> I hope that a mere proposal doesn't automatically mean policy change. |
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> |
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|
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If proposals come from a select couple of people, there are high odds |
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that it's been discussed privately and the relevant people've been |
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convinced or otherwise pushed to implement the change. By the time it |
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hits the list, any cricitism is met with "too bad, we're doing it |
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anyway". I'm not sure how new you are to Gentoo, but it's been this way |
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since at least 2012. |
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|
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> |
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> > If the "real leaders" of Gentoo want to divide and fragment the |
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> > community, it's their prerogative. |
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> |
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> When there is a request for comments, there should also be comments. :) |
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> |
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> Far too many fall into the simple trap that is tribalism, and I'd like |
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> to encourage everyone on this list to not be that kind of person, |
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> because there really is no "us and them", there is only "us". |
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> |
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|
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I think the plan to split mailing lists serves as a way to insulate |
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developers from the effects of their decisions. Anyone with an |
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incongenial tone will have their voice bit revoked and their mail will |
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be dropped or rejected. It will likely be a silent rejection, so the |
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fallout is minimal. The plan itself is a manifestation of tribalism. |
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The "us" is a select group of people who've been blessed by mgorny and |
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friends. Everyone else is deemed a "do nothing" or some other insult, |
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regardless of their history or efforts with the distribution. Yes, |
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talking about that is ugly, but it's the truth. I've been on the |
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receiving end of it multiple times and have been witness to it many |
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others. It shows up in just about every corner of Gentoo. Creating a |
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technical schism won't fix it. |
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|
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> |
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> > As we tell users who do something they're not supposed to: You get |
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> > to keep the pieces. |
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> |
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> Well, let's see what happens, now that both developers and |
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> non-developers have clearly spoken out *against* this proposal. |
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> |
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|
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I'm not holding my breath on any positive change, but we'll see. It's |
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not like we have a choice in the matter. I guess we'll have to subscribe |
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to yet another mailing list if we want to stay informed. Maybe in a |
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year's time, we'll have gentoo-dev-expert as well, so the Chosen Ones |
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don't have to deal with developers they don't like. |
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|
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This is my last mail in this thread. I've made my points and know they |
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will fall on deaf ears. You're not wrong in your approach; I don't share |
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that faith, is all. So I hope you don't interpret this as me yelling at |
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you. |
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|
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> |
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> Kind regards |
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> |
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> //Peter |
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> |
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|
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-- |
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Daniel Campbell - Gentoo Developer, Trustee, Treasurer |
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OpenPGP Key: 0x1EA055D6 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net |
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fpr: AE03 9064 AE00 053C 270C 1DE4 6F7A 9091 1EA0 55D6 |