On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:09:04 -0700
Donnie Berkholz <dberkholz@g.o> wrote:

> On 19:06 Wed 11 Mar     , Thilo Bangert wrote:
> > > > the presumption seems to be, that as a dev one has to be
> > > > available via IRC. it has long been my feeling that Gentoo as a
> > > > project could realize more of its potential by better
> > > > integrating people who dont do IRC.
> 
> I think IRC helps to build a more tightly knit community and, because
> of this, is very important to Gentoo. The less close we are as a
> community, the more free we feel to be hostile because we don't see
> the folks on the other end of the big tube as real people. It's much
> like a technique that militaries use during wars to de-personalize
> the enemy, except with the Internet, we start that way and have to
> apply effort to grow closer.
> 

This is an interesting point you raise, though I don't think it applies in this case.

I believe, rather, that the issue is the 'community' appears more like a 'cabal' when the discussions take place on #IRC and therefore aren't available in public archives.

Even if they are, an IRC log is a *terrible* way to document an issue.

Since the discussion is Re: '*DEVS* on IRC', I think the problem should be clear:

You all get more closely knit, perhaps, yet appear to do more *in secret*. There is *no way* to find out what is going on, without becoming part of the problem... by asking, or lurking, on IRC. This is bad.

Example? After months of searching for a reason, after seeing many apparently random updates to a previously stable tree of perl modules, I happen to keep an IRC session log which shows with this FSCKING USEFUL TIDBIT:

"... no motivated developers. the perl team completely vanished."

Anyone considering using Gentoo should KNOW that, if they use perl in any substantive way. Wouldn't you agree?

Now, why isn't there a discussion about this on the gentoo-perl mailing list? Not even a post from some DEV with a cry for HELP? If there's a problem, *who* is doing *what* to address it, and *where*? 

Oh, right, there's *some* discussion on IRC... 

Anyway, it's just one example. In this case, I'd be glad to see *some* documentation of the (apparent total) collapse of the 'perl team' and what is being proposed to fix the problem, *without* having to become part of the cabal.

Since there is a mailing list dedicated for discussions of perl and gentoo, that seems the most logical place to air the dirty laundry and announce/discuss the plan for moving forward. IMO.

Cheers,

-- 
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