1 |
On Wed, 27 Apr 2011 02:47:46 -0600 |
2 |
Ryan Hill <dirtyepic@g.o> wrote: |
3 |
|
4 |
> > Are you saying you are setting up the tree-wide project that |
5 |
> > automatically translates LC_MESSAGES? Round of applause! |
6 |
> |
7 |
> Nope, but I am raising donations to fund an instructive manual on the |
8 |
> usage of the NEEDINFO resolution. |
9 |
|
10 |
As already explained, requesting information and temporarily closing |
11 |
bug reports happens a lot already, but usually greatly stalls a |
12 |
bug's resolution. Developers have to make time to investigate the |
13 |
problem and lose time when they have to wait for additional information |
14 |
and need to reschedule. |
15 |
|
16 |
> > > For a growing portion of our user base it's not "nice" to see |
17 |
> > > these messages in their native language, it's fucking "necessary". |
18 |
> > |
19 |
> > Another round of applause for the appalling attitude. |
20 |
> > |
21 |
> > Could you elaborate on the need to read error messages in your own |
22 |
> > language? How is the sys-apps/portage translation project doing |
23 |
> > anyway? Still only in Polish, hm? :) |
24 |
> |
25 |
> Que? Are you saying that because portage is in English that people |
26 |
> that don't speak English don't use Gentoo? I would have to disagree. |
27 |
|
28 |
Obvious straw man. |
29 |
|
30 |
> If you think that getting the occasional bug report in a language you |
31 |
> aren't familiar with is annoying, |
32 |
|
33 |
You are obviously unaware of the scale of the problem. Devoting time to |
34 |
a bug becomes a serious problem when requested information takes a day |
35 |
or more to arrive, if at all. |
36 |
|
37 |
> imagine how not being able to get any build output you can read |
38 |
> might feel, especially if the reason is only because some dev |
39 |
> couldn't be bothered to occasionally ask someone to repost an error |
40 |
> message in English. |
41 |
|
42 |
You underestimate the vastness of my imagination. |
43 |
|
44 |
> This reminds me of the time someone wanted to ban inline `emerge |
45 |
> --info` postings in bugzilla (ie. attachments only) because they |
46 |
> found scrolling through them bothersome. |
47 |
|
48 |
I think you mean the time when I was requesting ATs not to post such |
49 |
information on stabilisation bugs just to confirm it was alright to |
50 |
stabilise. You know what? - I'll talk on that obviously tangential |
51 |
argument. That (arch team specific) policy was apparently abandoned, |
52 |
because it doesn't happen now. Perhaps I didn't cry victory on that one |
53 |
--- perhaps I should have specially informed you, since you seem to |
54 |
think this reflects on any future argument. A course in informal |
55 |
logic might do you well. |
56 |
|
57 |
You still haven't elaborated on the need to read build output in |
58 |
non-English, btw. You could have argued for non-English users' rights, |
59 |
or pushed for that LC_MESSAGES auto-translation project (I wasn't |
60 |
kidding), or you could have argued for a bug reporting tool that |
61 |
includes all the right information in the right language automatically. |
62 |
|
63 |
Look here, I am even willing to argue on your side just to possibly |
64 |
extract a meaningful objection to fixing LC_MESSAGES in |
65 |
sys-apps/portage. |
66 |
|
67 |
I can explain my position better on having LC_MESSAGES in the same |
68 |
language as sys-apps/portage appears to non-Polish readers, though. |
69 |
|
70 |
When someone has to read the English error output that sys-apps/portage |
71 |
tacks onto the end of the real error (possibly output long gone from |
72 |
the scroll buffer because it was an early sub-make that failed), |
73 |
doesn't want to go all technical and find that error message, and |
74 |
therefore needs to be asked to attach the entire thing or does that of |
75 |
her own accord, then why should the actual error message |
76 |
("foo/include/header.h: No such file or directory", in Simplified |
77 |
Chinese) be printed in a language the developer cannot read? |
78 |
|
79 |
The user only cares about using blender or openoffice - the user |
80 |
couldn't care less about the crufty build system of a DEPEND packages |
81 |
needed only at build time, or the language it prints. |
82 |
|
83 |
|
84 |
jer |