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To: Ned Ludd <solar@g.o>
From: Christian Faulhammer <fauli@g.o>
Subject: Re: A Little Council Reform Anyone?
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 22:14:25 +0200

in general you speak about the council but do you have any concrete
plans/goals you want to achieve?

Ned Ludd <solar@g.o>:
> The dev population is quite a strange beast. I never expected to win. 

 Nor did I, especially because you were quite low on my ballot.

> The devs have a voice one time of the year: when it comes time to
> vote. But what about the rest of the year? What happens when the
> person you voted for sucks? You are mostly powerless to do anything
> other than be really vocal in what seems like a never ending battle.
> That needs to change. I'm not quite sure how. But I'd like to see the
> dev body have a year-round voice in the council. Either via quick
> votes year-round on topics or simply by having discussion in the
> channel. Devs should have a right to voice their concerns to the
> council and engage in interactive conversations without being labeled
> troll.

 We have the forums for quick votes, votify is too much to get a
picture of opinions.  So use -dev-announce and forums.

> Another one of the things I'd like to see and help reform with the
> council. First off it spends way too much time on EAPI/PMS. There is
> no reason to make the council an extension of the portage team.

 As member of the PMS team I agree, we have to reach out to more
people.  No matter how well Ciaran does the job as editor-in-chief
the process needs to be broadened to involve other groups, too.

> For example prefix comes to mind. It was a project I did not like at
> first. I'm not even a user. And there are things I surely don't like
> about it as is. But there is community support and it's the icing on
> the cake for some. So I'll back the fsck up and give credit where
> it's due. This is a perfectly good example of a project/fork that
> needs to come back home. Perhaps it's time to cherry pick some more
> stuff/people out of Sunrise?

 Fully agree here, my devhood is a product of Sunrise.
> desultory points out any two council members can decide to approve
> anything, and that decision is considered to be equivalent to a full
> council vote until the next meeting. I vaguely recall that rule. I'm
> not sure about you, but I think that is a little to much power to put
> in the hands of a few. Any dev mind if we dump that power?

 Maybe extend that to three, but leave such a emergency measure in

> Meetings will likely go back to one time per month and be +m with +v
> be handed out per request with open chat pre/post meetings.  The
> reason for this is to keep the meetings on-track. I won't engage in
> endless discussions. Facts can be presented. They will be reviewed on
> merit, technical and social.

> The reason the meetings should go back to monthly is to allow those
> who are council members in Gentoo to accomplish things other than the
> council only. We all have personal lives and we all have our
> respective roles we play outside of the council. Another note on
> meetings. The time they are held currently don't fit well with my
> work schedule.

 That you have to discuss with your fellow council members.

> So lets have some damn fun again !@#$ 

 Oh yeah!


Christian Faulhammer, Gentoo Lisp project
<URL:>, #gentoo-lisp on FreeNode

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Re: A Little Council Reform Anyone?
-- Ned Ludd
Re: Re: A Little Council Reform Anyone?
-- Ciaran McCreesh
A Little Council Reform Anyone?
-- Ned Ludd
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