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To: gentoo-dev@g.o
From: Alec Warner <antarus@g.o>
Subject: Re: Is Gentoo dying?
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 19:40:04 -0700
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Joshua Saddler <nightmorph@g.o> wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 11:16:32 +0200
> Tobias Scherbaum <dertobi123@g.o> wrote:
>> - Our formerly outstanding documentation still is somewhat maintained,
>> but that's it. I haven't seen any new additions (both to our docs, but
>> also to our docs-team) for years. People are constantly asking for a
>> documentation wiki, but ...
> Thanks for sh**ting on my efforts. There are lots of visible changes, and I make a point of getting the word out when a new guide turns up in /doc/. I blog about the new docs I add, and I spend awhile working with contributors to make sure we get good stuff out there and that it's constantly updated -- the Openbox guide Nate Zachary wrote comes to mind. I'm also always working with developers who are writing docs in their spare time, coaching 'em through the process, assisting with GuideXML, taking patches, *and* creating patches and updates for devs who are posting documents in /proj/ and in their personal devspace. But I guess that doesn't mean anything to you.
> Oh yes, and I spend hours each week constantly updating docs based on the inflow of bugs, forum reports, and I constantly re-read each one and improve stuff where I can on-the-fly. Not everything has a bug tracker, but the end result is still a visible difference in the stuff you see on the website.

You need to take comments less personally.  If there is a constant
stream of updates then point him at your cia comment log or similar;
no need to pick a fight about it.  Certainly when compared to our
documentation of old I think the rate of new documents and document
updates is likely less now than it was then.  Perhaps what Tobias is
trying to convey is that he wants more people to contribute and write

>> - Website redesign - we had a contest some years ago, got a winner,
>> someone started to adapt the design and somewhat that project fall
>> asleep.
> We've added quite a bit, with the automated feeds and whatnot. And the sidebar stuff. And the revamping of our releases page, and lots of other areas. I've added lots of stuff; I guess you just haven't noticed.

Lots of content sure; not so much on the design side.  I personally
like our website and I think the design is fine (no need to put too
much effort into it IMHO.) but if other folks want to spend time on it
I'm not going to say no.  I still think something like taking what we
have and doing the redesign on non-gentoo stuff and then being like
'yo dawg I heard you like websites so i put a website in your website
so you can browse while you browse' or similar is the way to iterate.

>> - Speaking of our website, PR ... guess there's nothing more to add.
> Thanks for sh**ting on my efforts here, too. Take SCALE last month. I guess all the work I did to organize SCALE and go out and make a difference with our (potential) users by talking with them doesn't mean anything. All the word-of-mouth I've done with folks before and after SCALE, even my coworkers must not count for much.
> * * *
> I would have expected such this kind of negative, abrasive email from a user, but to see such a sensationalist letter coming from a developer is disappointing, to say the least. I expect better from you. Because whether you realize it or not, your email can only come across as denigrating my efforts, and everyone else who puts in hard work on (actually visible!) changes.
> Your email was inflammatory and offensive, but not in the way that motivates me to do more or do anything different. It came across as extremely demotivational.

Well it certainly hi-lights one area; that we often fail at
communicating what we are doing.  The pr team has some great people on
it who do great stuff (not including me; I tend to do as little as
possible.)  Maybe Tobias is blissfully unaware of the efforts of the
team.  Maybe he thinks the team can do better.  I don't see him saying
'well the pr team sucks balls!'  I see him saying 'well the pr team is
very quiet.'  I don't think that is too far from the truth; although
certainly pr@ is active it doesn't look like it from anyone not on
that alias (SCALE aside.)


Re: Is Gentoo dying?
-- Dale
Is Gentoo dying?
-- Tobias Scherbaum
Re: Is Gentoo dying?
-- Joshua Saddler
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