Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: A Little Council Reform Anyone?

[Ciaran McCreesh]

On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 11:55:02 -0600
Denis Dupeyron <calchan@g.o> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:20 AM, Ciaran
> McCreesh<ciaran.mccreesh@××××××××××.com> wrote:
> > I contribute productively and usefully
>
> This should have gone in private but I want it to be public because
> you and others apparently do not get it.

No, this needs to be in public. You're trying to 'reform', but you're
going about it completely the wrong way. Rather than addressing the
problems and fixing them, you're trying to bury them.

Moving conversations in private and making channels +m does not fix the
root cause. It just allows those who are trying to disrupt things to
get their way.

> The fact that you're contributing or not does not give you or anybody
> else the right to behave improperly on our mailing lists, forums, or
> else. There is no amount of contribution that would compensate for
> even the slightest inadequate behavior. Please everybody, print that
> and pin it above your monitor.

So say someone were to say "My aim is to make every project you're
associated with fail, and to disrupt everything you do in any way I
can", and then repeatedly pop up and start posting nonsense. What would
a proper response be?

Bear in mind that "ignore them" is not an answer, since ignoring them
leads to their stated aim of disrupting things to succeed. The Council
has on several occasions postponed and rejected proposals because the
trolls haven't been answered.

> > repeated pot-shots from the peanut gallery.
>
> Thanks for the good example. Please, you and everybody else, note that
> this above is considered abrasive by most of us.

I'd call that an entirely appropriate description of the behaviour of a
small group of people who have taken to deliberately disrupting
everything they can in some way connect to me. If you feel that's
inappropriate, please provide what you feel would be a better
description of the following:

http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/msg_09dcc806480b88940f4559f796f1cebf.xml

http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=182028#c10

http://marc.info/?l=gentoo-dev&m=124392201802899&w=2

http://marc.info/?l=gentoo-dev&m=124615139601592&w=2

http://marc.info/?l=gentoo-dev&m=123898857224257&w=2

http://marc.info/?l=gentoo-dev&m=123898982124997&w=2

< trelane> ciaranm: I want Paludis to fail. It's unhealthy (or at least
the loudest and most visible of it's devs are) for Gentoo.

< trelane> lets be VERY clear on that point. So long as Paludis, and
the culture it creates are unhealthy for Gentoo I want it to fail.

< trelane> ciaranm: that's put in a manner that seems to be a somewhat
knee-jerk reaction. It should be clear that opposing you and everything
you do was an initiative I started only after careful consideration.

> If you do this, not only do you pollute our mailing-lists, but you
> also attract more abrasive behavior from others. You only get what
> you deserve, so if you need to cry on somebody's shoulder then go see
> your mom. Do not express your hurt feelings on this list, we don't
> care. Not talking about making an ass of yourself for being so
> childish.

I don't have hurt feelings, and I don't wish to cry on anyone's
shoulder. I want you to stop trying to bury issues and start fixing
them.

> > Steve pops up every now and again and tries to disrupt things.
>
> You do the exact same in you own way. Please allow me to take that
> beam from your eye.

No, my goal is to help give Gentoo the progress it needs. There is a
huge difference between that and having a stated aim of trying to make
projects fail.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh