Re: [gentoo-dev] 2009 Council Elections

[Ferris McCormick]

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On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:40:00 +0100

Roy Bamford <neddyseagoon@g.o> wrote:



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> On 2009.06.28 10:00, Tiziano Müller wrote:
> > Am Freitag, den 26.06.2009, 07:15 -0600 schrieb Denis Dupeyron:
> > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 6:46 AM, Ben de Groot<yngwin@g.o>
> > wrote:
> > > > To appoint as proxy for a council meeting someone who has been
> > booted
> > > > from Gentoo is a clear lapse of judgement, and would in my eyes
> > > > disqualify the involved council member from functioning in that
> > position.
> > >
> > > As Petteri noted it's not obvious that GLEP39 disallows choosing a
> > > non-dev as proxy for a council meeting. I haven't talked to
> > Tiziano,
> > > and I don't know what he had in mind when he chose ciaranm as his
> > > proxy, but I'd be ready to believe part of it was that he wanted to
> > > experiment.
> > Well, it was surely not an experiment to see whether someone must be
> > a
> > dev or not to be a proxy. Based on GLEP 39 it was fairly clear to me
> > this must not be the case and I at least expected the council to
> > accept
> > him (or any other non-dev) at least for that meeting.
> >
> [snip]
> > --
> > Tiziano Müller
> > Gentoo Linux Developer, Council Member
> > Areas of responsibility:
> >   Samba, PostgreSQL, CPP, Python, sysadmin, GLEP Editor
> > E-Mail   : dev-zero@g.o
> > GnuPG FP : F327 283A E769 2E36 18D5  4DE2 1B05 6A63 AE9C 1E30
> >
>
> Its my opinion that the concept of proxies in council meetings is
> fatally flawed.
>
> 1. The brief (if any) that the proxy is given by the council member
> being proxied is never made public.
>
This is a problem.  Any time a council member requires a proxy, that

should be published immediately (including who the proxy is).  Not

possible for things coming up at the last minute, of course.



> 2. Its never clear if the proxy is voting as instructed by the council
> member or as they see fit at the time.
>
> What if an entire meeting and therefore any votes were staffed by
> entirely by non gentoo developer proxies?
> Unlikely, but perfectly possible under GLEP39. Would Gentoo feel bound
> by decisions that such a meeting reached?
>


Currently, yes.



> Oh. Don't talk about 'common sense' GLEP39 does not mention it, so it
> doesn't count ... and its much rarer than you may think.
>
It's worse than that.  I think 'common sense' is subjective and thus

not a useful method of interpretation.  Even if one disagrees with that

statement, 'common sense' is certainly cultural (do you suppose common

sense in N. Korea is the same as common sense in S. Korea?  I don't

think so at all.).  So, 'common sense' for Gentoo still cannot be all

that useful a method of interpretation, because Gentoo most certainly

is multi-cultural.



> Lastly, as a trustee and partly legally responsible for decisions made
> on behalf of Gentoo, I am uneasy with the concept of non developers
> making those decisions. Now reread my 'what if' above with that
> liability in mind.
>
It's not that bad.  as long as council meets every two weeks, any

decision can be undone within 2 weeks (and council can always hold a

special session.  Although under your 'what if' scenario, we have a

council which does not take its responsibilities very seriously.)

> Note: Other trustees may have a different view of the world
>
I'm sure we all have different views of the world.  But I generally

agree with what you have written here, I think.

> - --
> Regards,
>
> Roy Bamford
> (NeddySeagoon) a member of
> gentoo-ops
> forum-mods
> treecleaners
> trustees
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Regards,

Ferris

- --

Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <fmccor@g.o>

Developer, Gentoo Linux (Sparc, Userrel, Trustees)

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