Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> On 14:05 Fri 13 Mar     , Michael Higgins wrote:
>> Even if they are, an IRC log is a *terrible* way to document an issue.
> 
> I agree. So is a mailing-list archive that is also never summarized. 
> It's not the location that makes it a problem, it's the volume of 
> information and the lack of a summary of important decisions or long, 
> important discussions.
> 

I certainly don't consider the use of IRC harmful per-se or consider it 
a "cabal," but I can't consider IRC and an unsummarized mailing list 
equivalent communication mediums.

If I want to know what is going on in IRC I need to leave a client 
connected 24x7 (and if my connection goes down for whatever reason I 
just miss whatever happens).  Then I need to read through thousands of 
lines of banter to see what is going on.

If I want to know what is going on in a mailing list I launch my 
threaded email client.  If a computer goes down SMTP, IMAP, and various 
redundant servers will eventually get the messages to me.  The 
discussion is threaded and categorized by topic, so I can mercilessly 
hit delete and not have much risk of missing something I'm interested 
in.  Essentially even an "unsummarized" mailing list is fairly well 
summarized compared to IRC.

Don't get me wrong - I like the team-building aspects of IRC.  However, 
it is not a good communication medium when you're dealing with 
volunteers that might only spend a few hours per week total working on 
Gentoo (or maybe only a few hours per month), spread across 24 time 
zones.  It is perfect for realtime collaboration on solving specific 
problems.  It is also great for brainstorming ideas, and just having 
fun.  Unfortunately, it also shares certain drawbacks with the phone - 
for starters it tends to prioritize tasks by urgency rather than by 
importance.  It also encourages "shooting from the hip" - just like 
having meetings without an agenda, pre-discussion, and general 
preparation.  No problem for trivial tasks, but not a good idea when 
making final decisions of strategic importance.

However, if certain work takes place exclusively on IRC then you're 
going to exclude some people.  Many of those people could be strong 
contributors but they might not like working in "realtime."  This might 
not be because of communication skills/etc - maybe they have a family 
and they'd rather see what needs to be done and take care of it here and 
there without being given an assignment and having 10 other people 
bugging them about whether it is done yet when they have 14 other things 
to do.  Sure, such a dev is probably not a good candidate to be leading 
a major Gentoo project, but that doesn't mean that they have little to 
contribute.  For example, I typed this email in one sitting but I could 
have just as conveniently taken 3 days to piece it together in 5 minute 
bursts.

I'd consider the current council format a good example of how IRC can be 
used in conjunction with mailing lists, agendas, and scheduled meeting 
times.  IRC can be used to finalize thinking and make decisions.  It can 
also be used for informal discussion anytime before a meeting.  Much of 
the serious contribution is captured on mailing lists, however, and when 
decisions are made it is based upon the widely-gathered input. 
Everybody knows what decisions are going to be made in advance and can 
show up if desired.  If they can't show up they can at least contact 
council members in advance (and the world at large) to state their 
opinions.  This certainly doesn't need to be used for every tiny Gentoo 
decision - but it is a great model for how to handle things of importance.