On Sun, 2009-06-28 at 23:53 +0100, Roy Bamford wrote:
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> On 2009.06.28 23:14, Ferris McCormick wrote:
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> > On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:40:00 +0100
> > Roy Bamford <neddyseagoon@g.o> wrote:
> > 
> [snip]
> 
> > > What if an entire meeting and therefore any votes were staffed by 
> > > entirely by non gentoo developer proxies?
> > > Unlikely, but perfectly possible under GLEP39. Would Gentoo feel
> > > bound 
> > > by decisions that such a meeting reached?
> > > 
> > 
> > Currently, yes.
> > 
> > > Oh. Don't talk about 'common sense' GLEP39 does not mention it, so
> > it 
> > > doesn't count ... and its much rarer than you may think.
> > > 
> > It's worse than that.  I think 'common sense' is subjective and thus
> > not a useful method of interpretation.  Even if one disagrees with
> > that
> > statement, 'common sense' is certainly cultural (do you suppose
> > common
> > sense in N. Korea is the same as common sense in S. Korea?  I don't
> > think so at all.).  So, 'common sense' for Gentoo still cannot be all
> > that useful a method of interpretation, because Gentoo most certainly
> > is multi-cultural.
> > 
> > > Lastly, as a trustee and partly legally responsible for decisions
> > > made on behalf of Gentoo, I am uneasy with the concept of non 
> > > developers making those decisions. Now reread my 'what if' above 
> > > with that liability in mind.
> > > 
> > It's not that bad.  as long as council meets every two weeks, any
> > decision can be undone within 2 weeks (and council can always hold a
> > special session.  Although under your 'what if' scenario, we have a
> > council which does not take its responsibilities very seriously.)
> > > Note: Other trustees may have a different view of the world
> > > 
> > I'm sure we all have different views of the world.  But I generally
> > agree with what you have written here, I think.
> 
> You agree that common sense can't be used and admit that a corner case 
> exists that would in effect have the trustees pointing out to the 
> council that they had made an error of judgement and need to reverse a 
> decision that the last meeting made. I would prefer never to have to go 
> there.
> 

I meant that the council can reverse itself.  I did not intend to imply
any trustee action --- I intended to imply that council should be able
to see when they had made an error of judgment.

> I do not agree that an all proxy council meeting shows that the council 
> does not take its responsibilities very seriously, rather that real 
> life has hit everyone at the same time and they have appointed 
> proxies. GLEP39 does not even set a limit on the maximum number of 
> council members who may be proxied at any single meeting.  

Fair enough.  But I don't think such a meeting should ever happen.
Surely, council can reschedule a meeting if they see this coming up. :)

> As I have already said, I'm against the idea of proxies altogether.
> We should amend glep39 to remove proxies and ensure that council 
> members are drawn from the developer community. Of course, that 
> does not eliminate the possibility of the trustees pointing out to the 
> council that they need to reverse a decision but it does ensure that 
> decisions are made only by council members who are Gentoo developers.  
> 
> - -- 
> Regards,
> 
> Roy Bamford
> (NeddySeagoon) a member of
> gentoo-ops
> forum-mods
> treecleaners
> trustees
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Regards,
Ferris
-- 
Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <fmccor@g.o>
Developer, Gentoo Linux (Sparc, Userrel, Trustees)