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To: gentoo-dev@g.o
From: Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@...>
Subject: Re: Tone in Gentoo
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:47:02 +0300
On 06/16/2010 09:18 PM, Alec Warner wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 8:36 AM, Nikos Chantziaras<realnc@...>  wrote:
>> On 06/16/2010 08:43 AM, Jeroen Roovers wrote:
>>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 05:33:27 +0200
>>> Sebastian Pipping<sping@g.o>    wrote:
>>>> Tone is currently not a strength of Gentoo.
>>>> As I have heard there are people not joining Gentoo because the
>>>> atmosphere in Gentoo is lacking respect and empathy.
>>> That's a conclusion first, then a premise?
>>>> I have searched a few places for rules on tone, looking at the Gentoo
>>>> Social Contract [1], the Code of Conduct [2] and the Philosophy of
>>>> Gentoo [3].  In a way the Code of Conduct defines what good and bad
>>>> behavior is.  The term "Acceptable behaviour" may make sense as a
>>>> counterpart to "Unacceptable behaviour" but feels like "what you can
>>>> get away with" to me anyhow.
>>>>   - How come tone is so rough when we actually meant to be
>>>>     a friendly community?  Has it always been that way?
>>> What are you referring to? forums.g.o? bugs.g.o? #gentoo? Who, where,
>>> when, what channel, thread?
>>>>   - With these Code of Conduct rules in place how come DevRel
>>>>     is not publicly reminding of these rules where necessary?
>>> When did you point this out to devrel?
>>> [... snip ...]
>> Those replies are a good example of the rude behavior the poster is
>> referring to.  The replies consisted of sarcastic questions in "you're an
>> idiot" style.  The only thing they do is trying to trigger a hostile
>> response from the poster.
> Don't read so much between Jer's words.  The tone of the reply could
> certainly use improvement but I do not think his questions were meant
> to be sarcastic at all or imply the poster was an idiot.  The only
> thing Jer was trying to 'trigger' is a response with some evidence of
> 'bad tone' so we can continue the discussion.  I don't think a hostile
> reply was intended at all.

It's the overall tone that isn't nice.  Usually, when someone posts 
something, lots of people reply with sarcastic-looking "you're wrong, 
prove it or gtfo" replies.  Even if the OP is wrong, that's not the way 
to tell him that.  If you want to be constructive, you should include 
the reasons of why you thing he's wrong in your reply, or ask him to 
elaborate more.

Just look at some threads where lots of developers were fighting each 
other and track down the first post that triggered the flame; it's 
usually of the "proof or gtfo" sort.  It's bound to annoy the poster and 
make him get hostile even if his original intentions were anything but 

Re: Re: Tone in Gentoo
-- Sebastian Pipping
Tone in Gentoo
-- Sebastian Pipping
Re: Tone in Gentoo
-- Jeroen Roovers
Re: Tone in Gentoo
-- Nikos Chantziaras
Re: Re: Tone in Gentoo
-- Alec Warner
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