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Hi all, |
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I agree with this. |
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I don't think that we should have the livecd boot directly into an installer either. I was comfortable using the current install process, and I think it should always be an option. |
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Thanks, |
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William |
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|
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On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 11:18:52AM +0100, Stroller wrote: |
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> On Sunday, April 13, 2003, at 09:49 am, Jeff Rose wrote: |
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> |
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> > One of the major pains in the redhat like installers deals with |
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> > package selection. I think it is ridiculous to give people a list of |
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> > a thousand packages and tell them to pick. Especially since the |
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> > package documentation is horrible. Most people probably wouldn't know |
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> > that its important for them to have the e2fsprogs installed, for |
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> > example. So, this |
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> > is the portion of the installer where I see the most room for |
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> > innovation. |
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> |
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> Hear! Hear! |
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> |
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> I work (for my sins) in an evangelically M$-only environment. Our IT |
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> Director has obviously read something in the newspapers recently about |
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> Linux, so he dusted off his "old" Vaio c-series & installed DeadRat, |
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> then brought it to me when it booted to Gnome & didn't set-up the circa |
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> 1180 x 480 screen resolution properly. |
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> |
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> Some things I found: |
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> - sendmail started at the default runlevel when I booted it up. |
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> - he was logging in to the GUI as root, and didn't even now how to get |
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> a virtual terminal using ctrl-alt-f1 |
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> - gcc wasn't installed and the VaioCam stuff needs installing from |
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> source. |
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> - RH8 allows you to copy the CD .iso files to hard-drive (in DOS for |
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> instance), boot from a floppy, and then continue the install from these |
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> HD images. Unfortunately, once the system is installed, the "control |
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> panel" package manager doesn't know where to look for CDs, and fails |
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> anytime you try to add packages. I couldn't find an option to change |
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> this at all, so ended up mounting the .iso files as `-o loop` (mind |
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> you, at least I learned something), running rpm from the CLI, and |
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> fulfilling dependencies by hand. Yeuch! It's cute & ironic that Gentoo |
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> is intended for "power-users", as against RH's ease-of-use, yet such a |
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> problem cannot arise with Gentoo. |
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> - I want a Vaio c-series |
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> |
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> Now, I rather like the current Gentoo install process, but I've been |
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> using Linux for a couple of years already. A friend with only Windows |
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> experience recently overheard me talking about Gentoo, and decided to |
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> try it. Because he does not live locally, I can't visit him to help |
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> when he has problems with his install, and I really feel I should have |
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> recommended Mandrake. |
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> |
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> We'll see how it goes when my friend resolves his present issue with an |
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> older CD-ROM drive resolved, but I would not complain if an installer: - |
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> helped with network card detection, |
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> and helped ensure that /etc/modules.autoload was suitable |
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> - saved typing when partitioning |
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> - automated the copying / extraction if the stage.tar files |
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> - did the chroot automatically |
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> - prompted the user for a root password |
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> - insisted on adding an initial user |
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> (making sure it gave that user wheel privileges, so the user can `su`) |
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> - offered to install a GUI of the user's choice |
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> from the KDE / Gnome grp tarballs |
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> - did NOT add xstart to the default run-level, but added info on how to |
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> do so to the MOTD. AFAICT configuring X can be a a bit complicated, |
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> and autodetection of hardware could be quite a task to write. So IMO, |
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> when the system is booted for the first time, it should go to the |
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> CLI, and newbie users can't complain if X doesn't handle their |
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> graphics card / monitor: the answer is "it's not intended to do |
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> that". |
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> - on the same theme, I'd like the installation process to disable root |
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> logins to the GUI. |
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> - some other stuff I can't think of at this time in the morning |
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> |
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> It arises however that Gentoo has some very nice features for its new |
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> users: |
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> - Gentoo installs a simple Unix system, with no bloat. |
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> This really is what Unix is about: I often read in Linux newsgroups |
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> posters asking "Why doesn't foo happen when I click bar in the network |
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> options box of the Linux control panel". |
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> So many GUI configuration tools are available in modern distros that |
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> they become, perhaps, less usable, and harder to support. |
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> Unix is NOT Windows - why do folks so often try to make it that way..? |
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> Equally I feel that Gentoo probably shouldn't be marketed as a first |
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> distro (and it's bit unfortunate that so many newbies consider |
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> themselves power-users & like the idea of a "small, tight, |
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> highly-optimised system", but have expections of GUI configuration |
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> tools). |
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> - Gentoo doesn't impose a particular GUI on you, or install 5. |
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> I remember finding the choice a bit overwhelming when I first tried |
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> Mandrake. |
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> - It's not Unix if cc isn't installed. |
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> I've met OS X sys admins who are afraid to install from source, and I |
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> remember my trepidation at the idea when I first started Linux. |
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> Gentoo overcomes this VERY well. |
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> |
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> So, anyway, I'm probably preaching to the converted here, and so |
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> wasting my breath. I usually try not to advocate operating systems. I |
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> guess I'm proposing balance in any installer that is written: if you |
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> don't try to make it do too much, I think you could be very successful. |
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> |
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> Stroller. |
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> |
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> |
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> |
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> |
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> -- |
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> gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list |
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> |
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|
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