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On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 7:50 PM, Andrew D Kirch<trelane@×××××××.net> wrote: |
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> Ciaran McCreesh wrote: |
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>> < trelane> ciaranm: I want Paludis to fail. It's unhealthy (or at least |
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>> the loudest and most visible of it's devs are) for Gentoo. |
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>> |
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>> < trelane> lets be VERY clear on that point. So long as Paludis, and |
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>> the culture it creates are unhealthy for Gentoo I want it to fail. |
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>> |
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>> < trelane> ciaranm: that's put in a manner that seems to be a somewhat |
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>> knee-jerk reaction. It should be clear that opposing you and everything |
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>> you do was an initiative I started only after careful consideration. |
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>> |
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>> |
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|
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I think to preface I will state that Gentoo now is not the Gentoo of |
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yore and will likely never be again. That is part of the reason why I |
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left (too big, too rudderless). I hope the new council can find a |
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rudder. That being said the comments below are mine alone. |
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|
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> |
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> Ciaran, you are killing Gentoo. You wrote a demonstrably error prone |
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> GLEP 39, then tried to exploit it to ram through GLEP 55, and you got |
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> caught. You've created a huge amount of red tape, needless bickering |
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> argument, and have utterly hamstrung every council ever convened. |
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> Ciaran, you will not be doing this again. |
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|
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I somehow doubt Ciaran agrees with you view; nor a number of other |
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folks. It makes it look like you comments are a bit accusatory as if |
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he is conspiring to destroy Gentoo; and I don't think that is the |
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truth of things. |
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One man wars are not really easy to fight; and you will not win many |
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friends (and plenty of enemies.) |
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|
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That being said Gentoo is what people make of it; I don't think there |
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is a "Single Gentoo Vision" and there has not been one for years; so |
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it is difficult to see how Ciaran is bringing down anything. If you |
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think his ideas are crap then I suggest locating the people who are |
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using them and talk to them about it. Certainly some people think |
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they are good ideas (otherwise why are they being adopted?). |
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|
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> |
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> So there is now a moral question, do I have the right to oppose Ciaran, |
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> Paludis, and everything he does? Certainly I do, especially since he |
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> has created many, myriad, and manifest arguments in the community |
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> (amazingly we're having one now, and I was drug into it). Do I have the |
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> right to voice this opinion? Certainly I do. Is the opinion correct? |
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> In my eyes yes. |
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|
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A moral question? Is this some kind of crusade? You have the right |
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to do whatever you want; but you can keep your personal crusade |
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against Ciaran *offlist*, just like all the other personal jibs and |
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statements. |
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|
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> |
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> Note though the second sentence, as it is incredibly important. Ciaran |
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> insists on continuing to create red tape for Gentoo, it has created a |
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> recent and MAJOR incident in a council meeting which has created bent |
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> feelings, and totally hijacked the initiative of the council. Until |
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> this behavior stops I will oppose it publicly and loudly. |
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|
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To be blunt; the devs picked a poor council then; I hope the new |
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council does better in this area too. It seems to me that if everyone |
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agreed with you that Ciaran was useless and his ideas sucked then he |
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wouldn't get the council's ear. However I believe the opposite is |
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true; developers and teams report specific problems; he goes off to |
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solve them and then brings them to the council. His ideas are |
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actually useful (not all of them, but some) and thus the council is |
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willing to listen. |
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|
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The council should be completely under its own control. Step 1 of |
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running an effective meeting is not letting the attendees run the |
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meeting over you (and I've seen it happen in real life meetings and it |
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is hilarious; but I feel bad for the guy running the meeting all the |
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same.) That involves telling Ciaran to STFU if they are spending too |
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much time on his stuff (as anyone who is presenting at meetings.) |
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|
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> |
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> I would also point you to the recent council vote, wherein dev-zero was |
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> ousted (see the major incident) and peper, who I think is a nice, sane |
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> guy in my dealings ended up dead last. This is of course because of his |
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> relationship with you Ciaran. |
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|
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Of course, you know how everyone voted and why; thus we can easily |
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deduce that everyone hates Ciaran, Exherbo, and Peper! I think its |
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your opinion that Peper lost due to this association (and I would |
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hesitate to call it "obvious".) |
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|
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> |
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> Ciaran, you are perhaps the least politically capable person I've ever |
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> met. It is not possible for you to holdiin your head at the same time |
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> two divergent ideas. Your idea of pluralism is that everyone does |
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> things your way. Then when that doesn't happen you throw a temper |
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> tantrum. You sir, are killing Gentoo for these and many other reasons, |
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> and I demand that you stop, I will also unilaterally oppose you until |
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> you do. |
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|
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The fact that you make this a black and white case is why I doubt your |
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reasonable stance on the issues. I don't think unilaterally opposing |
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anyone puts you on moral high ground. What if Ciaran actually has a |
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good idea; will you oppose it just because it is Ciaran? You know |
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what I called upstreams who ignored patches from me because I was a |
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Gentoo developer? I call them idiots. Please don't fall into the |
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same boat (and don't shoot Gentoo in the foot by ignoring a source of |
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progress.) |
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|
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> |
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> Andrew D Kirch |
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> Funtoo.org |
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> |
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> |
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> PS: Ciaran, Thank you for comparing me to Rush Limbaugh, I consider it a |
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> compliment. |
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> |
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> |