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Ben de Groot wrote: |
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> On 19 June 2010 09:10, "Paweł Hajdan, Jr."<phajdan.jr@g.o> wrote: |
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> |
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>> On 6/19/10 8:43 AM, Patrick Lauer wrote: |
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>> |
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>>> As long as it doesn't get actively hostile we can continue with a |
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>>> pretty large amount of friction. Read the archives of this mailing |
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>>> list if you want to see how much :) |
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>>> |
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>> I think that is the point. Is just not being actively hostile a success? |
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>> I'd say that a really friendly community is much more, and reducing |
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>> friction seems to be a good goal to create such a community. |
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>> |
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>> Moreover, we don't just want to get along with ourselves. We want to |
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>> encourage other people to join our community. We want to prevent people |
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>> more sensitive to the tone (I think it's actually a good thing) from |
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>> leaving. |
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>> |
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>> Because we lose their technical contributions as well (if that's the |
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>> only thing you care about). |
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>> |
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> This is a point that deserves more consideration. One of the top |
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> reasons (as witnessed in forum discussions) many people are not |
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> getting more involved and volunteering to become developers is the |
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> level of in-fighting and the ineffective way that bullies and other |
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> poisonous people are being dealt with. Does Gentoo really prefer to |
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> keep more sensitive people out instead of effectively getting rid of |
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> repeat offenders? |
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> |
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> Think about it. What kind of people would you rather have in Gentoo? |
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> |
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> Cheers, |
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> Ben |
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> |
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> |
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|
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I would like to say this to the list and then I have no plans to say |
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anything else. This is NOT directed at Ben either, just picked this to |
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reply to. I would love to learn how to do some programing and help |
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Gentoo. I been using Gentoo since the 1.4 days. I'm not a genius and I |
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don't even claim to know a lot much less everything. Thing is, I was |
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here several years ago when even this mailing list was basically out of |
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control. Are things better, you dang right they are. They are hugely |
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better. Are they where they should be, nope. A lot of progress has |
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been made but it still is not like it should be. If I owned Gentoo and |
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it was my pride and joy, I wouldn't tolerate some of the things that are |
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said. Since most people here have jobs, would your boss knowingly allow |
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some of the things said here or on private lists to continue, or would |
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someone be looking for a job? I don't want a answer, just some to think |
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about the question a bit. I understand that people here are volunteers |
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too. No need to point that out. Thing is, it doesn't matter if you |
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volunteer or not. I volunteer for a lot of things locally but I won't |
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volunteer for Gentoo. I just happen to like the OS. I wouldn't |
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continue to volunteer for the local things if I had to deal with some |
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things that happen on the lists either. Again, it has improved a lot or |
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I wouldn't be subscribed at all. My hats off to the ones that got it |
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this far. |
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|
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To Sebastian, the mailing list has improved a lot and there are still |
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occasions where things happen that shouldn't. The changes you want are |
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going to be difficult if not impossible. Make the decision that I made, |
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either let things get better over time then join in or if you feel like |
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it, try to help change them slowly. If you expect this to change |
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anytime soon, you will only disappoint yourself. I fear it will |
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eventually lead to a lawsuit from somebody then things will change. |
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Eventually, someone will go to far and then Gentoo will be at least |
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partially on the hook for it and be forced to change. I'm not saying |
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Gentoo would or should lose but the costs of the defense will force a |
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change. Most small organizations like Gentoo can't afford but one bite |
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out of that apple. As some have said in the past, the mailing list and |
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such do belong to Gentoo. Therefore, Gentoo would be accountable for |
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its part of what happens on them. The lawyers will argue that Gentoo |
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allowed it to continue and therefore permitted it to happen. Again, may |
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not work but Gentoo would still have to foot the bill to defend itself. |
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|
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My $0.02 worth for the day and that ain't much. |
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|
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Dale |
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|
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:-) :-) |