Ben de Groot wrote:
> On 19 June 2010 09:10, "Paweł Hajdan, Jr."<firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
>> On 6/19/10 8:43 AM, Patrick Lauer wrote:
>>> As long as it doesn't get actively hostile we can continue with a
>>> pretty large amount of friction. Read the archives of this mailing
>>> list if you want to see how much :)
>> I think that is the point. Is just not being actively hostile a success?
>> I'd say that a really friendly community is much more, and reducing
>> friction seems to be a good goal to create such a community.
>> Moreover, we don't just want to get along with ourselves. We want to
>> encourage other people to join our community. We want to prevent people
>> more sensitive to the tone (I think it's actually a good thing) from
>> Because we lose their technical contributions as well (if that's the
>> only thing you care about).
> This is a point that deserves more consideration. One of the top
> reasons (as witnessed in forum discussions) many people are not
> getting more involved and volunteering to become developers is the
> level of in-fighting and the ineffective way that bullies and other
> poisonous people are being dealt with. Does Gentoo really prefer to
> keep more sensitive people out instead of effectively getting rid of
> repeat offenders?
> Think about it. What kind of people would you rather have in Gentoo?
I would like to say this to the list and then I have no plans to say
anything else. This is NOT directed at Ben either, just picked this to
reply to. I would love to learn how to do some programing and help
Gentoo. I been using Gentoo since the 1.4 days. I'm not a genius and I
don't even claim to know a lot much less everything. Thing is, I was
here several years ago when even this mailing list was basically out of
control. Are things better, you dang right they are. They are hugely
better. Are they where they should be, nope. A lot of progress has
been made but it still is not like it should be. If I owned Gentoo and
it was my pride and joy, I wouldn't tolerate some of the things that are
said. Since most people here have jobs, would your boss knowingly allow
some of the things said here or on private lists to continue, or would
someone be looking for a job? I don't want a answer, just some to think
about the question a bit. I understand that people here are volunteers
too. No need to point that out. Thing is, it doesn't matter if you
volunteer or not. I volunteer for a lot of things locally but I won't
volunteer for Gentoo. I just happen to like the OS. I wouldn't
continue to volunteer for the local things if I had to deal with some
things that happen on the lists either. Again, it has improved a lot or
I wouldn't be subscribed at all. My hats off to the ones that got it
To Sebastian, the mailing list has improved a lot and there are still
occasions where things happen that shouldn't. The changes you want are
going to be difficult if not impossible. Make the decision that I made,
either let things get better over time then join in or if you feel like
it, try to help change them slowly. If you expect this to change
anytime soon, you will only disappoint yourself. I fear it will
eventually lead to a lawsuit from somebody then things will change.
Eventually, someone will go to far and then Gentoo will be at least
partially on the hook for it and be forced to change. I'm not saying
Gentoo would or should lose but the costs of the defense will force a
change. Most small organizations like Gentoo can't afford but one bite
out of that apple. As some have said in the past, the mailing list and
such do belong to Gentoo. Therefore, Gentoo would be accountable for
its part of what happens on them. The lawyers will argue that Gentoo
allowed it to continue and therefore permitted it to happen. Again, may
not work but Gentoo would still have to foot the bill to defend itself.
My $0.02 worth for the day and that ain't much.