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If I may say something, without having contributed to the Gentoo |
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project or its documentation. |
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|
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What you, Ted, are doing looks like a very useful project, if |
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difficult and a lot of work. It does seem people, even students, |
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expect their computers to be easy and straightforward to use, while |
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ironically, just going through the gentoo installation process would |
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show them how much is involved to get things to work. |
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|
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In general, I think the web is big enough, a link here or there, and |
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people will find your very useful guide. In particular, I would say a |
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beginner is equally likely to find your guide if it was on the gentoo |
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website, or anywhere else. |
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|
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If you have trouble finding hosting, I'm sure I'd be able to help out. |
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|
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In section 7.2.1, you might as well point out other VM possibilities, |
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like qemu. I feel it's a very good idea to add photos like around page |
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35. |
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|
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Stephan |
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|
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On 1/31/07, Ted Kosan <tkosan@×××××.com> wrote: |
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> Josh wrote: |
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> |
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> > And, in my opinion, the guidexml handbook format for long documents |
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> > works much better than a booklike format; it's superior to vanilla |
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> > docbook as well -- another suggested format that comes up from time to time. |
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> |
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> |
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> and Chris wrote: |
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> |
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> >Keep in mind that we already have transformation scripts that we use for |
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> >the Handbook during releases to convert the GuideXML into PDF. One of |
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> >the advantages of GuideXML is the ability to transform it into other |
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> >things quite simply. |
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> |
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> As long as the format that the materials are placed into supports line numbers |
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> and images/diagrams, I will be happy. |
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> |
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> |
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> |
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> Josh wrote: |
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> |
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> > That being said, the question here is twofold: what would hosting your |
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> > work in progress do for Gentoo, and what would Gentoo hosting it do for it? |
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> > |
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> > So far, I haven't come up with anything realistic for either. More |
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> > documentation or not, I still don't think adding something designed for |
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> > utter computer/Linux newbies would be of any help. One thing I heard |
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> > some other Gentoo devs mention the other day was that most of the |
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> > frustrations of new users (Gentoo users were the subject here, but I |
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> > think you can extrapolate this and apply it to Linux users in general) |
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> > are caused by a common mindset: they simply aren't accustomed to the |
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> > idea of reading in general. They *especially* aren't used to the idea |
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> > that they have to read technical documentation. |
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> |
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> I definitely agree that the problem of people not being accustomed to reading |
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> is widespread. |
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> |
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> However, after guiding numerous freshman classes through installing Gentoo |
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> using the Gentoo Handbook, I have come to the conclusion that most of the |
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> frustrations that these students experience are due to the Handbook not being |
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> designed specifically for newbies ( and I think the Handbook is excellent at |
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> what it is designed for, BTW ). |
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> |
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> The reason I think this is because I am in the computer laboratory during the |
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> installation process and I get to observe newbies working through the Handbook |
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> step by step. I know everyone is reading the materials because I am constantly |
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> running around the room, looking over everyone's shoulders and helping them |
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> with their difficulties :-) |
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> |
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> I have been teaching this class for about 3 years now and this has given me the |
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> opportunity to see person after person encounter the same difficulties at the |
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> same points in the Handbook. Over time, I found myself giving each student |
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> that encountered a given difficulty a standard explanation which was helpful |
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> for overcoming it. A significant portion of the gentoo_linux_install document I |
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> have created consists of covering the same information that the beginning part |
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> of the Handbook does, but at a much slower pace and with all of the difficult |
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> parts I am currently aware of explained more fully. |
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> |
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> Now, to address the questions in your first sentence. I am currently using the |
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> materials in week 4 of a 10 week class and so they will be finished 6 weeks |
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> from now ( unless I get hit by a truck or something :-) The size of the |
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> overall document is at 135 pages now and I am projecting that the final |
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> document will be between 175 and 200 pages. I am not proposing doing anything |
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> with the materials until they are complete, other than having people here look |
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> at them. |
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> |
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> |
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> |
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> >What could the materials do for Gentoo? |
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> |
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> - Cutting Gentoo's newbie frustration problem by perhaps 50%. |
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> |
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> - Attracting a significant number of promising 13-20 year olds newbies to the |
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> Gentoo site so that they can obtain fundamental computing knowledge which is |
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> difficult to obtain elsewhere. If they are successfully able to finish the |
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> materials, many of them will probably go on to become Gentoo users and perhaps |
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> even developers. |
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> |
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> - If the materials are used to periodically teach a free online class ( and I |
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> will volunteer to teach it ), this would provide the opportunity to develop |
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> news releases ( and perhaps articles ) which explain what the goal of the class |
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> is, why it is unique and why Gentoo was the distro it was based upon. The |
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> online class should provide different enough news content to attract the |
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> interest of people who might not otherwise have considered looking at Gentoo. |
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> |
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> I have more reasons I could list, but I think this is enough for now. |
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> |
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> |
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> |
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> >What would Gentoo hosting it do for it? |
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> |
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> My goal for the materials is to have them help as many frustrated computer |
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> newbies as possible. I have taught free online classes in the past on more |
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> specialized topics with class sizes up to 400. If marketed properly, Gentoo |
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> classes based on these materials should have the potential to achieve class |
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> sizes of 1000+. Having the materials eventually hosted by Gentoo would allow |
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> them to benefit more easily from Gentoo's existing marketing capabilities. |
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> |
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> Beyond this, Gentoo technologies are intimately woven into the fabric of these |
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> materials and so I think they should be housed in a place where Gentoo |
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> developers have easy access to them. |
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> |
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> |
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> |
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> > You're going to need some extremely convincing arguments in favor of |
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> > it before I, personally, will be sold |
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> > on the idea. |
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> |
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> Instead of trying too much harder to convince you, what I would like is the |
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> opportunity to show you. What I have in mind is testing this idea by running a |
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> small scale experimental newbie's class using the materials. I am not sure of |
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> the best way to recruit newbies for the course, but perhaps locating people ( |
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> like Duncan's young friend ) through word of mouth would be sufficient. |
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> |
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> Some members of the Gentoo Documentation Project could then monitor the course |
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> and determine whether it is worth pursuing further after it is completed. |
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> |
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> |
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> Respectfully, |
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> |
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> Ted |
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> tkosan@×××××.com |
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> |
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> |
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> -- |
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> gentoo-doc@g.o mailing list |
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> |
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> |
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|
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|
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-- |
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Stephan Wehner |
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> http://stephan.sugarmotor.org |
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> http://stephansmap.org |
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> http://www.trafficlife.com |
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> http://www.buckmaster.ca |
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-- |
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gentoo-doc@g.o mailing list |