Re: [gentoo-embedded] CF Sub-Package Mgmt. was Re: hardened uclibc gentoo stages

[Natanael Copa]

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:02:54 -0400
Jason Cooper <gentoo@××××××××××.net> wrote:

> > We are running harddisk-less bering routers (when we get all of them
> > up and running there will probably be over 200 of them) Those are
> > pulling runtime packages on the fly. Even if we do that, we need to
> > reboot during upgrades. This year there have been a numbers of
> > upgrades and it would be very nice to prevent the reboots. It is
> > possible.
>
> I think one of questions I have regards systems that have flash and
> ram as their only means of storage.  It's my understanding that the
> initrd image must be written to the flash as a whole.

I probably forgot to mention it, we run those boxes from cdrom and not
from flash.

> Of course, any changes to the running system would work, but would not
> be persistent.  In this case, a package system may not be desirable.

Critical updates might want to be commited quick, remotely. (ssh, web
interface) Download an updated package now. Send someone out to find
those boxes and replace the cd in case of a UPS failure ore something
like that.

Or if you grab the runtime packages from network during boot, nfs
whatever, you update your nfs server and upgrade the devices.

>  Doesn't mean it shouldn't
> be an option, just that there should be some means of upgrading the
> image on the host and then flashing the target(s).  Also, target
> package management tools should be optional.

Yes, they should be optional.
 
> I think both approaches have merit.
>
> Hypothetical build process:
>
> # emerge crossdev
>
> # crossdev --arch=powerpc ...
>
> # export EMBEDDED="powerpc"  ??? pulled out of thin air :)
>
> build the kernel... then
>
> # export E_ROOTFS=/opt/powerpc/rootfs ??? same here...
>
> # emerge system (this will go to $E_ROOTFS, for $EMBEDDED)
>
> emerge individual packages (ssh, nfs, ntpd, ipkg-tools, etc)
>
> add your app (if needed).
>
> edit rc script for app.
>
> configure everything.
>
> disconnect loopback file (rootfs), compress
>
> flash.

Have you tried:

ROOT=/opt/.../rootfs emerge uclibc busybox

You will get alot of unwanted stuff there too, but that is a good start.

You can also try something like:

PACKAGES="ssh nfs ntpd ipkg-tools ..."
FEATURES="buildpkg nodoc noinfo noman" emerge $PACKAGES
( cd $E_ROOTFS 
  for i in $PACKAGES ; do
	tar -jxpf /usr/portage/packages/All/${i}-*
  done
)

To get "rid" of some of the depended stuff like gcc etc.

In this last case, the "runtime" packages are used to build your rootfs
- the difference is the time when the packages are extracted. In any
case, we don't want gcc python perl etc in our target - so runtime
packages or rootfs images end up with the same.

What we have been doing until now is building a live rootfs in a
directory and the build the runtime packages (apkg) from there. (so far
this is with glibc)

> Do I have the right idea?  It almost looks like a separate
> 'portage/embedded/' tree may be necessary so package maintainers
> aren't bothered with embedded issues.  The embedded tree would
> essentially be ebuild wrappers pulling extra patches, etc.  Maybe
> '.e_ebuild' or '.eebuild'?

I'm not sure if that is what we want. Maintaing 2 trees is double work.
If it is not absolutely neccessary to have a separate tree, I think its
better to avoid it.

> I'm sure a lot of this has already been covered... Unfortunately, I
> can't find the archives to browse. :(

I am pretty new here too, so I might have wrong in my opinions.

-- 
Natanael Copa

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