Gentoo Archives: gentoo-guis

From: "René 'Necoro' Neumann" <lists@××××××.eu>
To: Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccreesh@××××××××××.com>
Cc: gentoo-guis@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-guis] Why I don't like catapult
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 11:55:57
Message-Id: 47F374DA.4050203@necoro.eu
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-guis] Why I don't like catapult by Ciaran McCreesh
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>> Despite the current open issues (btw: I tried to collect them on a >> wiki page: http://catapult.origo.ethz.ch/wiki/current_issues ), do >> you think that the whole system can be brought to something useful in >> the end? > > I think you have one big issue: you don't have a clear purpose for the > API. > > On the one hand, you're saying that it should be a nice simple API for > clients. > > On the other hand, you're saying that you want to use it for writing a > nice fancy GUI.
We just have a lack of a common base here. I can't see why these two points are disjoint. The current API is already used for a GUI - and works. The problem I see, is that you (and paludis) always want to be a little bit more fancy and more complex.
> Of the Paludis clients we've experimented with, the one that makes by > far the most complex use of the API is the GUI client. This isn't > merely because we can -- the only time a GUI becomes useful is when it > offers functionality that can't easily be provided quickly by a non-GUI > client.
Nope - a GUI should provide things which are cumbersome using the commandline. If a GUI offers things, that can't be done using CLI / scripts - the CLI is bad.
> A GUI should be able to do things like display a resolution of > 'update world with deps', and have little clicky things on each item > saying things like "exclude this from the update" (greyed out if the > item can't be excluded), "show me a tree of why this package is > included in the list" and "select a different item from the || ( ) > branch that pulled this dep in". You can't do this without an extremely > rich API (and you probably can't do it without lambdas hooked into the > resolver...). You definitely can't do this by having a crude "give me a > command I can exec()" way of installing things.
Your description is fancy ... _but_ the things you are describing is an integrated GUI. It's on the same level the CLI is on. This is nothing which is achievable with catapult (at least at the moment). Catapult _uses_ the package manager and is not part of it. Thus also the GUI would _use_ the PM. And as mentioned in my earlier mail, avoiding the exec() stuff and use the manager itself is bad in my eyes for different reasons. And for portage it won't work at all. Thus - I still vote for providing the exec interface. It can be dropped if a nicer solution is found later on. To sum up: I vote for the simple API - to get things done. It can be enhanced later on. And just because I feel like it - the get_x_option and their return values as I see it for paludis: deep : [] newuse: ["--dl-reinstall", "if-use-changed"] pretend: ["--pretend"] oneshot: ["--preserve-world"] - - Necoro -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH83Ta4UOg/zhYFuARAkofAJ4u7VQrzBzSyQLUEL8a7jfLSUxiCgCfT7f/ PBX30hWht2dQvL4RHOgd0YI= =b4xY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- gentoo-guis@l.g.o mailing list

Replies

Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-guis] Why I don't like catapult Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccreesh@××××××××××.com>