Gentoo Archives: gentoo-installer

From: LinuxMan <linuxman@×××××××××.com>
To: Simon Stelling <blubb@g.o>
Cc: gentoo-installer@l.g.o
Subject: RE: [gentoo-installer] version 0.3 of the Gentoo Linux Installer
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 13:28:18
Message-Id: AIEOLPLNIHGFCIEDKLKJOENMCDAA.linuxman@dsl.pipex.com
Thanks for clarifying your perspective Simon. But I think if this is the
general feeling and reason for the Gentoo Live Installer then your point
should be emphasised more to the Linux community at large. When Distrowatch
and others release statements about the new live installer then your
subjecting yourselves to be influxed with new users who think it's the
answer to their prayers. It's these hundreds, probably thousands of users
who need to know that 'Live Installer' in Gentoo speak is not the same as
'Live Installer' in PClinuxOS speak. In defence of the GLI I guess there is
no set boundaries as to what a Live Installer should exactly do.

I personally think the GLI is a massive improvement over traditional
methods, but still think the term 'Live Installer' is somewhat mis-leading
to new users. And I think you should care about what people think, and also
if they prefer another distro because without people/users Gentoo is dead.


-----Original Message-----
From: Simon Stelling [mailto:blubb@g.o]
Sent: 01 March 2006 12:53
To: linuxman@×××××××××.com
Subject: Re: [gentoo-installer] version 0.3 of the Gentoo Linux
Installer


Hi,

LinuxMan wrote:
> What sort of attitude is that to tempt new users to Gentoo, or anyone for > that matter. Surely the installer should be aiming to make installation
not
> just easier but also easier and better than the rest. Otherwise what's the > point? If that's your attitude you might as well not bothered with the > installer and just told everyone to read the manual instead!! I think
Norman
> has a valid point and your answer doesn't do his question justice. I'm > concerned that there are potential new users who could add to Gentoo, who > are going elsewhere because of confusing options and attitudes that don't > help anyone.
Right, there are some very different opinions floating around in this thread, and they definitvely need some explanation. Let me try to explain my personal mentality towards this topic, I'm sure it'll help you to understand certain decisions: I've been a Gentoo developer for 1.5 years, working mostly 3 hours/day on Gentoo, which makes a total of ~1650 hours. If I would only get $10 per hour, that would make at least ~$16'000. Doing volunteer work is pretty strange in a capitalistic system. Why should I do a lot of work for free? Of course not because I'm just a great guy. The main reasons why I do work on OSS are: * It's fun digging around in source code. * It's fun being part of a great community. * It's a great way to learn new stuff. * It's a great way to avoid boredom. As you see, the most important reason is having fun. I don't care about what people think of Gentoo. If they think Debian is 10 times better, that's okay. If they think Gentoo is the biggest shit on earth and just a waste of time for everybody, that's okay. I have fun with it, and that's the important thing. Now, that was the fun part. But there are also a few things that are not so funny. The most annoying thing I can think of are PEBCAK (problem exists between chair and keyboard) problems. You don't know how annoying it is to get bugged about a certain problem 100 times although you documented it very well and even asked people to read the documentation. It drives you mad. Sadly, there are a lot of new users unwilling to read documentation and then think Gentoo sucks just because they are lazy. You try to solve the problem by making things easy enough that it doesn't require documentation. But keep in mind that those people will never contribute anything to the project. That's the big difference between commercial projects and free ones: I gave the lazy user 1650 hours of my time, he gave me nothing but a rant. If he at least gave me 16'000 bucks, the situation would be a bit different, but he didn't. People who want to give something back to a project start doing so by reading documentation. How could you contribute to a project without understanding it anyway? You simply can't. The installer is a great thing, because it saves a lot of time for me, but it was never written to save the time you need to read and understand documentation. GLI enables me to complete a Gentoo installation within 15 minutes, therefore it is a great thing. It's not a great thing because it will make Gentoo more popular or easier to install for newbies that don't want to read documentation. I hope I could help you to understand the issue from a dev perspective. Kind regards, -- Simon Stelling Gentoo/AMD64 Operational Co-Lead blubb@g.o -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.0/269 - Release Date: 24/02/2006 -- gentoo-installer@g.o mailing list