2008/9/14 Robert Burrell Donkin <robertburrelldonkin@...>:
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 2:21 AM, Andrew John Hughes
> <gnu_andrew@...> wrote:
>> 2008/9/13 Robert Burrell Donkin <robertburrelldonkin@...>:
>
> <snip>
>
>>> AIUI and IMNSHO *NO* local build from source qualifies. gentoo
>>> *SHOULD* *NOT* expose users to risk by using trademarks etc for *ANY*
>>> source build even from the sun tree.
>>>
>>
>> Maybe that's being a bit over cautious,
>
> i agree that sun is unlikely to sue any users over java ATM but
> trademarks must be defended or cease to exist. sooner or later sun
> will have to either lose the java trademark or act against
> unauthorised users.
>

I wasn't talking about the Java trademark, I was talking about the OpenJDK
trademark.  Use of the Java trademark requires passing the
certification process,
and this isn't possible for a source build.  Only binaries can pass
the TCK and thus
be certified.

>> but the problem generally is
>> Sun thought of this with binary distribution in mind, not source.
>
> the JCP is set up to manage binaries, not source. IMO this is the
> fatal flaw in this system. (i'll avoid going OT by repeating the
> argument again here.)
>

Yes, the JCP still needs work, being centered around proprietary
binary distribution for the most part.

>> As with any legal agreement, the best solution is to consult a lawyer.
>> I'm not one.
>
> does gentoo have a agreement with sun?
> if so, is it available on line?
> if not, what agreement is being relyed on?
>

Not as far as I know, but other than naming and trademarks, OpenJDK is just
like any other FOSS project.

>>> BTW i'm on AMD64 which has very poor support from the sun java
>>> codebase. are there any plans to add support for the harmony VM?
>>>
>>
>> What 'poor support'? IcedTea6 works fine for me here on amd64.
>
> eclipse and sun don't play well. however, i haven't tried switching to
> the iced tea build on gentoo so maybe i'll give that a try next time.
>
>> Feel free to package Harmony, but I don't see how that will solve your problems,
>
> harmony runs eclipse fine. every couple of months when gentoo changes
> something, i have to devote a couple of hours fixing stuff so that
> eclipse works or else switch to harmony until everything's fixed.
>

That's interesting.  I don't know anything about the proprietary Sun
builds on amd64, I've
never used them.  But I also don't run Eclipse.  Have you filled
appropriate bugs?
Certainly try IcedTea and, if you get failures, report them to our bug
database at
http://icedtea.classpath.org/bugzilla.

>> given it doesn't yet have a complete implementation of even 1.5.
>
> if sun had honoured it's agreement to allow access to the TCK by open
> source projects,  then harmony (and the free JVMs) would have had
> certified 1.5 implementations a year ago and (most likely) 1.6 ones as
> well by now. this is a political issue, not a code one.
>

I seriously doubt that, given it took OpenJDK a year to pass the 1.6
TCK, despite
being based on a codebase, the majority of which has passed as part of
the proprietary work.

> - robert
>
>



-- 
Andrew :-)

Support Free Java!
Contribute to GNU Classpath and the OpenJDK
http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath
http://openjdk.java.net

PGP Key: 94EFD9D8 (http://subkeys.pgp.net)
Fingerprint: F8EF F1EA 401E 2E60 15FA 7927 142C 2591 94EF D9D8