On Thu, 2011-03-24 at 14:35 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
> So, I'm not going to go point by point as this is getting out of hand.
This whole thread is way to much. There really should have only been a
single reply to my initial post. Providing links or access to the
information I am seeking. That nothing has come forth, and this thread
has grown quite substantial. Just makes me further doubt the current
wellness of things all around.
> First, I'm inclined to trust the current trustees until I see evidence
> that we shouldn't. Certainly if elected I would ask to see evidence
> that filings have been made, and I'm sure that in this capacity
> everybody would be cooperative.
Given the clear lack of knowledge and experience on these matters, thats
blind faith which I do not have. Since I do have knowledge of said
matters. If the filings had been done, proof would be very easy to
produce in variety of ways. Which I have mentioned more than once.
> Second, my points in general were that we need to focus on moving
> forward and not in correcting mistakes ages ago that might not be
Yes, and the first thing is financial accountability! Which for some
reason hasn't happened in years. Like the bylaws state annual financial
report to membership. Thats never happened, and there is no annual
financial reports published, just quarterly. Which the bylaws make no
provisions or requirements for quarterly reporting.
Much less if annual filings with New Mexico and the IRS have been done,
then duplicating that info in guidexml, or what ever would be a minor
> I wasn't trying to suggest that we can afford to not follow the law.
> I'm just saying that we need to have our current ducks in a row before
> we try to fix the past. From the sound of things this may already be
> in order, and so we can look into the past at our leisure.
There is no proof things are in order. That a trustee said Gentoo does
not exist with the IRS is a major red flag! Any legal entity has to be
filed and exist with both. You can't exist with a state only and not the
federal government. Its impossible!
> My example of what can go wrong with community-driven projects wasn't
> intended to suggest that we shouldn't accept money, or that these
> problems are going to happen. My point was that we aren't Canonical,
> and that what works for Canonical might not work for Gentoo.
Well again there are many NPO's out there, and I was looking at quite
many. I did not want, and had no intention of getting Gentoo's structure
to mirror any other. I was simply looking to cherry pick, and the main
ones were FreeBSD, Debian, and Gnome. Which all are NPO's have great
structure, funding development, etc.
> I certainly support expanding the foundation, and its financial
> impact. I'm even fine with paying for more consistent professional
> help with the books if it makes sense.
Well most can be done in house, with using an outside professional for
review purposes. Which should reduce any costs even further.
> I'm not sure that funding a
> bunch of devs makes sense right now, though perhaps it could in the
Thats moot to me, and up to others to make a reality, if that ever
happens which I seriously doubt. But it would be wonderful if Gentoo did
get its act together enough and could fund development. The GSoC tends
to be a good thing for Gentoo. Gentoo doing the same for itself would
only be that much better.
> I'd rather see money spent on hardware, infrastructure, or
> perhaps on expenses if they're judicious and don't create a lot of
> resentment if some benefit more than others. A Gentoo conference is
> nice in theory - although people who aren't near clusters of devs
> might feel left out (how likely is a dev in Zimbabwe to get to attend
> a local conference ever?).
What if devs had free tickets to the event? Paid for by the Gentoo
Foundation. Or what if Gentoo provided developer hardware? ;)
Keep in mind any conference would be towards the user base, with regard
to attendance. Gentoo developers would be more staff at the event.
> Bottom line is that spending money can create problems in a community,
> and we need to think about that. This isn't a reason to never spend
> money - it is a reason to keep this in mind.
Well many other communities do not have such problems on the money
front. But I am more concerned with financial accountability and
required legal filings relating to such. That would have to come long
before Gentoo even considered paying people. Which that comes with other
things, like payrol tax, etc. Which even a NPO pays payrol tax, thats
different than income tax. Even if all devs were 1099 contractors, still
bunch more financial paperwork when paying people, vs buying or spending
money on stuff.
William L. Thomson Jr.