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To: gentoo-nfp@g.o
From: Steve Long <slong@...>
Subject: Re: Re: How to improve the trustees
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:58:45 +0000
Jan Bilek wrote:
> On Feb 4, 2008 7:50 AM, Alec Warner wrote:
>> I'm really digging for specifics here.  'bleeding edge' is very
>> unspecific.  It is my experience that major updates are available
>> hours or days after release.  Are you dissatisfied that this is not
>> true for some packages, or dissatisfied that the packages are marked
>> for testing and masked instead of being stable or ~arch?
> A couple of years ago when a new version of any application appeared
> some Gentoo users popped out in some discussion immediately laughing
> "haha, we've got it in our official tree, we are the first ones..." -
> Gentoo used to be famous for that;-)
Well it still is bleeding edge imo, it's just that stuff new to the tree tends 
to go on in overlays. Apart from losing bragging rights, I don't see a 
downside to counter the associated increase in QA.
> When I started with Gentoo my /etc/portage/package.use used to be
> empty. Now I have a lot of ~x86s (and I have never had any trouble
> with them - do all of them need to be ~ed?).
No, you most likely should be unmasking specific versions, so that when the 
glitch is over, you can delete the old unmasks. autounmask handles that all 
for you nowadays (it deletes old entries when no longer in use.) Unmasking 
with no version is really only for packages that one personally has an 
interest in, imo.

> - you can see many users claiming they left Gentoo and have chosen
> Arch. I am not saying it means anything about Gentoo - but I think
> it's good to know about it.

Indeed. The only thing that'll stop it though is if more work is done on 
Gentoo for beginners. That's not its traditional market, but #gentoo-guis is 
working towards that.

> I am not saying it's necessarily bad thing to be a bit slower than the
> most bleeding-edge distros. Maybe it's because Gentoo has better QA
> than for example Arch. Maybe this is just one of these things that
> need to be explained to users - a communication issue again. But some
> people claim it is because of a lack of manpower in Gentoo - in that
> case we might want to re-think recruitment process.
As pointed out, just get involved ;) If someone is rude, just don't deal with 
him or her anymore. There are loads of devs, so you're bound to run into at 
least a couple who annoy you.
>> Arrogant?  I'd imagine some are; I personally try not to be and I'm
>> sure I fail at it quite often.
>> I don't think Gentoo is a club for elitests
> I don't think that either. I just wanted to say that I had observed
> many users who think so and many of them claim to have left Gentoo
> because of that - which means there is something wrong with
> communication again. Why are Gentoo developers perceived as arrogant?
Some of them are.

> Does the arrogant minority get more attention than decent majority?

> Why?
They tend to be quite vocal.

> I think Gentoo needs better tools to manage it's PR.
Agreed, and the pr@g.o project is on that case: why not mail them and 
see if you can help out?
>> I certainly develop for myself and not for users.  Now this is a fine
>> line to walk.  Developing for yourself means you work at your own
>> pace; it doesn't give you the right to be mean to folks or to
>> contribute negatively.  It means you don't really get deadlines and
>> you get to choose what to work on regardless of others input.

> IMO Gentoo needs a better conflict-management tool to manage internal
> relations (a better and more powerful mechanism how to watch and
> possibly get rid of troublemakers before many developers and users are
> lost because of their behavior, and maybe some other way how to solve
> the conflict without at least one side of a dispute leaving Gentoo...)
> and proactive positive PR.
Well first is devrel, and that's a new team so I think it's best to see how 
they perform for at least 6 months. Latter is moving ahead; the news snippets 
are great, especially with the new link to forum topic.
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