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To: "William L. Thomson Jr." <wltjr@g.o>
From: Luca Barbato <lu_zero@g.o>
Subject: Re: Section 4.1 Member Classes
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 01:47:16 +0200
William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-05-22 at 21:30 +0200, Luca Barbato wrote:
>> Gentoo is a volunteer project, your value/honor/weight is given by your 
>> contribution to the project, that doesn't mean that non-developers have 
>> no chance to give an input, that just means that they have to convince 
>> others that their idea has a value. Everybody is free to participate by 
>> proposing on the gentoo-dev mailing list,
> 
> That's a development centric list. I think maybe you mean -project
> rather than -dev?
> 
> No one said A was of technical nature. In my previous example.
> Where would suggestion on events go?

To the appropriate subproject.

> Or ways to improve organization that is non-technical.

-project ml

> Where should one discuss our mission of promoting education?

-project, -sci project

> Where does one discuss our election process?

-project
> Where would one discuss Gentoo in the media.

-pr

> Or voice a general opinion on something relating to Gentoo?

Forums

> Ok, so what about all the projects falling by the way side? When there
> was no GWN now GMN. Who did something about that? Was the council
> looking to keep that project going? Or what about Events?

Nothing related to this discussion. The council, at least me and donnie, 
use to poll people to know what's going on, maybe not that often as I 
wish but I'm trying.

> We are supposed to be electing a new council per GLEP 39. Who is doing
> that or to oversee it?

Elections seems to have rules, like the ones used to elect the current 
council and the former one ^^

> And what is our arrangement with them.

They offer us whatever they want and we kindly accept.

> 
>>  Again being a volunteer project the main contribution should 
>> be made in time and people. A business should hire developers or provide 
>> people willing to develop for Gentoo. Money by itself is less 
>> interesting and useful.
> 
> Really? So there is no interested in say funding a Gentoo Conference. Or
> Gentoo doing it's own summer of code. Or other creative things.

Nothing of them is dollar, euro or yen.

If somebody wants to sponsor such events good. Nothing core.

> Ok, creativity aside. We lose a sponsor, which almost happened with a
> major one. We need a few $k in services for Gentoo every month. We need
> that now and today, not tomorrow when we can find a sponsor or sponsors
> to provide the services to Gentoo for free.

We got one as the needed, luckily our core features are _that_ interesting.


> What happens if infra decided we need to buy our SSL certs rather than
> free from CACert? What happens if hardware we own dies and we have to
> buy a replacement? What happens if the council wants to do new things,
> request is made to infra, but funds are there to make such request
> happen?

The usual, somebody steps up for providing those if interested.

>> Business last time I checked is done by individuals.
> 
> Businesses using Gentoo make $ off that. That's not necessarily the case
> for individuals. If a business is using Gentoo as a product they are
> selling. What benefit does Gentoo get from that?

Usually sponsorship or just the improvements they are bound to give back 
due gpl. We are not doing this for money, you know?


> What's wrong with delegation? If the council doesn't mind getting help.

I do mind since this thread.

> Why should others. But really the beauty of the existing structure. Per
> like GLEP 39. Is all the power is in the councils hands. If they
> councils wants they can poll developers. But if an elected council cuts
> a deal to delegate responsibility to the trustees, and later foudation
> officers. That's fully within their elected global power and duties.

Sure, nothing the current council will due since the shortage of time to 
even evaluate

>>> Being as how the foundation does not steer or control the project. The
>>> council does.
>> But strangely you are the same person asking for more power to the trustee.
> 
> I am not alone. This was expressed in others manifestos per election I
> believe. Have to double check.

Please do.


> People are to focus on power, and not organization. The trustees are
> seeking more and better organization for a foundation that has never
> been operated, or run as intended. Or with any success. We are not
> seeking more power or etc. Just organization, and delegation where it
> fits.

I don't see that in this discussion.

> 
>> Looks like the keyword here is "volunteering".
> 
> And what is the RedCross? Do people volunteer for that?

I have a deep knowledge of RedCross in Italy and I'll anything in my 
power to avoid Gentoo getting that way: lots of politics, wasteful usage 
of founds, abuse of voluteers and their time.

lu

-- 

Luca Barbato
Gentoo Council Member
Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero

-- 
gentoo-nfp@g.o mailing list


Replies:
Re: Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- William L. Thomson Jr.
References:
Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- William L. Thomson Jr.
RE: Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- Chrissy Fullam
RE: Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- William L. Thomson Jr.
Re: Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- Luca Barbato
Re: Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- William L. Thomson Jr.
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