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To: gentoo-nfp <gentoo-nfp@g.o>
From: "William L. Thomson Jr." <wltjr@g.o>
Subject: Re: Section 4.1 Member Classes
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 16:03:37 -0400
On Thu, 2008-05-22 at 21:30 +0200, Luca Barbato wrote:
> Gentoo is a volunteer project, your value/honor/weight is given by your 
> contribution to the project, that doesn't mean that non-developers have 
> no chance to give an input, that just means that they have to convince 
> others that their idea has a value. Everybody is free to participate by 
> proposing on the gentoo-dev mailing list,

That's a development centric list. I think maybe you mean -project
rather than -dev?

No one said A was of technical nature. In my previous example.

Where would suggestion on events go? Or ways to improve organization
that is non-technical. Where should one discuss our mission of promoting
education? Where does one discuss our election process? Where would one
discuss Gentoo in the media. Or voice a general opinion on something
relating to Gentoo?

>  contacting developers working 
> on the area they are interested in, helping project and subprojects 
> within Gentoo evolving.

Ok, so what about all the projects falling by the way side? When there
was no GWN now GMN. Who did something about that? Was the council
looking to keep that project going? Or what about Events?

We are supposed to be electing a new council per GLEP 39. Who is doing
that or to oversee it?

> We got already sponsors, how that would change the relations we have 
> with them?

And what is our arrangement with them.

>  Again being a volunteer project the main contribution should 
> be made in time and people. A business should hire developers or provide 
> people willing to develop for Gentoo. Money by itself is less 
> interesting and useful.

Really? So there is no interested in say funding a Gentoo Conference. Or
Gentoo doing it's own summer of code. Or other creative things.

Ok, creativity aside. We lose a sponsor, which almost happened with a
major one. We need a few $k in services for Gentoo every month. We need
that now and today, not tomorrow when we can find a sponsor or sponsors
to provide the services to Gentoo for free.

What happens if infra decided we need to buy our SSL certs rather than
free from CACert? What happens if hardware we own dies and we have to
buy a replacement? What happens if the council wants to do new things,
request is made to infra, but funds are there to make such request

> Business last time I checked is done by individuals.

Businesses using Gentoo make $ off that. That's not necessarily the case
for individuals. If a business is using Gentoo as a product they are
selling. What benefit does Gentoo get from that?

> > Now we are talking about a very small amount of influence if any at all.
> Considering what you suggested in another thread and on irc, it looks 
> quite a large amount once the foundation got some of the power the 
> council is supposed to have.

What's wrong with delegation? If the council doesn't mind getting help.
Why should others. But really the beauty of the existing structure. Per
like GLEP 39. Is all the power is in the councils hands. If they
councils wants they can poll developers. But if an elected council cuts
a deal to delegate responsibility to the trustees, and later foudation
officers. That's fully within their elected global power and duties.

> > Being as how the foundation does not steer or control the project. The
> > council does.
> But strangely you are the same person asking for more power to the trustee.

I am not alone. This was expressed in others manifestos per election I
believe. Have to double check. But if your following all I am saying. I
am very concerned with Trustees power as well. Like us being able to pay
ourselfs as we see fit. At least that's what current and draft by laws
state and allow for. Or that trustees can act on their own, but be
indemnified. I don't like that at all.

People are to focus on power, and not organization. The trustees are
seeking more and better organization for a foundation that has never
been operated, or run as intended. Or with any success. We are not
seeking more power or etc. Just organization, and delegation where it

> Looks like the keyword here is "volunteering".

And what is the RedCross? Do people volunteer for that?

William L. Thomson Jr.
Gentoo Foundation

signature.asc (This is a digitally signed message part)
Re: Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- Luca Barbato
Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- William L. Thomson Jr.
RE: Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- Chrissy Fullam
RE: Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- William L. Thomson Jr.
Re: Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- Luca Barbato
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