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To: gentoo-nfp@g.o
From: Mark Loeser <halcy0n@g.o>
Subject: Re: Section 4.1 Member Classes
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 22:34:22 -0400
"William L. Thomson Jr." <wltjr@g.o> said:
> On Thu, 2008-05-22 at 22:11 -0400, Mark Loeser wrote:
> >
> > How is this related at all to the current discussion?  Perhaps you
> > should contact the developers that are trying to get Gentoo/FreeBSD
> > going.
> 
> I have directly. My point is, would be nice if we had some infra gear
> for this. Which unless we buy it, would require someone to donate a
> machine. So effectively holding back aspects of the project, due to a
> lack of hardware or gear.

You didn't directly say this.  Please do so in the future so you don't
have to (in your own words) "waste your time" doing so.

Have any requests for a FreeBSD box occurred?  Would this actually help
development?  Is the problem with getting development done a lack of
people, and not a lack of hardware?  I'm rather confident its the former
rather than the latter.

> > > Yes, but we require $ to do what we do now. Gentoo doesn't happen for
> > > free either. Again with all this time people are giving. If we had no
> > > where to commit our code then? Or means to email each other like now.
> > 
> > So are we going to start paying developers too?
> 
> No, where did anyone say anything about that?

You seem very focused on paying for all of the hardware, people's time
is much more expensive.

> >   I'm not sure if that's what you are going for, but if so, I can't see how it
> > will ever happen.
> 
> Just because you can't see it. Doesn't mean there aren't ways, etc. I
> just proposed one in this thread. If companies have to pay to become
> foundation members. That's $ right there, and that's just one of many
> possible ways.

Well, I think the way you have presented in this thread is really silly.
Effectively you are saying we will have people pay to become a member of
the foundation so they can "vote".  I have never seen a foundation vote
for some "feature" or anything else occur, and it really will amount to
nothing since features and other requests should go through the council.
If something actual has technical merit, it will get recognized by
someone.


> > > I think we already have clear abuses of volunteers and their time. Not
> > > sure why you think we are much different or better than them.
> > 
> > How are we abusing our volunteers and their time?
> 
> This is some what an abuse of my time right now. I am not committing
> code. I am not making progress on the bylaws. I am effectively doing
> nothing now, but addressing peoples concerns. More times than not in
> Gentoo when dealing with others I am just wasting my time. It's very
> sad.

You obviously haven't worked in any sort of company or group.
Addressing concerns of those in a group is a major part of leading any
initiative.  Get used to it.

> Which everyone was quite silent on this list pre January 08. Seems like
> the more anyone tries to do to improve things for all. The  more others
> have issues with any changes or improvement.

Have you considered that some of don't consider these to be
improvements?

> Instead of people saying, hey another Gentoo dev has good intentions.
> People are quick to think and jump to the worst. With no thoughts on
> toward the potential good that can come out of it all.

Refer to the above comment.

> I did not create the present messes. Just trying to correct and clean up
> so they do not repeat themselves. Also so the project can continue on,
> and not risk major set backs by loss of a sponsor, or etc.
> 
> Which I love how no one comments on the potential catastrophe that still
> might be looming over us.

Any open source project could be crippled by the loss of a sponsor.
This is the nature of a community supported open source project.  Maybe
if we were Fedora this wouldn't be a problem, but I like that we are
do not have corporate backing, and I hope we stay this way.


-- 
Mark Loeser
email         -   halcy0n AT gentoo DOT org
email         -   mark AT halcy0n DOT com
web           -   http://www.halcy0n.com
Attachment:
pgpdxfrxrBUZJ.pgp (PGP signature)
Replies:
Re: Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- William L. Thomson Jr.
References:
Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- William L. Thomson Jr.
RE: Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- Chrissy Fullam
RE: Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- William L. Thomson Jr.
Re: Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- Luca Barbato
Re: Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- William L. Thomson Jr.
Re: Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- Luca Barbato
Re: Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- William L. Thomson Jr.
Re: Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- Mark Loeser
Re: Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- William L. Thomson Jr.
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Updated Jun 17, 2009

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