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Hi, |
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|
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"Jan Bilek" <clonolu-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@××××××××××××.org>: |
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> It might be useful to know about this issue - seeing this |
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> (http://www.google.com/trends?q=gentoo) I would guess great deal of |
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> people interested in Gentoo are from eastern Europe. |
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|
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Actually I did not know that...I knew that Gentoo was strong in Europe |
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but not that much shifted to the east. |
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|
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> - Gentoo used to be 'bleeding edge' - it's not anymore. |
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|
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That may be true for some areas, but not for others (at least the |
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areas I work on). |
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|
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> - I remember the last big crisis 'Robbins vs. McCreesh', valuable |
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> developers leaving Gentoo as a result... and in my opinion |
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> Council/devrel were not able to handle it, the only outcome I noticed |
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> was toothless CoC - that didn't seem like viable management to me. |
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|
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That's the outcome of being structured in loose projects...it has |
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advantages and disadvantages. |
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|
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> - complaining users - I have read so many complaints, many of them are |
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> very similar and frequent (let me paraphrase): 'Gendoo developers are |
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> arrogant'. 'Gentoo is a club for elitists'. 'They do Gentoo just for |
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> yourselves, they don't care about users'. 'I wanted to help Gentoo but |
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> it's too difficult to get in'. 'It takes too long for ebuilds to get |
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> to the official tree and I miss important apps'. 'Gentoo's structure |
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> is not flexible enough - Arch is also great and it's much easier to |
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> contibute', 'I sent patch but no one carred', 'dev told me in response |
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> to a bug report I filed 'get over it and move on'. |
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|
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Yes, sometimes don't want to fix a thing, maybe because it is hours of |
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work without a benefit for me. But I try to explain that to users and |
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maybe they start the work and provide the fix. |
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|
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> - developers claiming that technically Gentoo works better then ever. |
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> And as for me Gentoo really works well. |
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|
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When I started with Gentoo I often had broken packages and a emerge |
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spree run overnight did seldom succeed. Now I rebuilt world |
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completely...without one failure. That's my observation. |
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|
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> - my personal experience with Gentoo developers is great - you have |
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> been very nice to me. And I have read many posts from people like |
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> Grant Goodyear and the others - to me they seem to be very smart, |
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> communicative and constructive people. |
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|
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Some aren't, maybe because they had a bad day or want work be done |
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quickly. In the latter case they have no time for long explanations, |
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which is sometimes mistaken (online) as rudeness. |
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|
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> Generally... I think that it's better to suppose that the complainers |
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> might be right and look into it (and maybe find out that they are |
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> not). If they are right you can fix things. If they are not you can |
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> explain it to them and you are not going to lose them. That's why I |
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> have written those posts - trying to express my actual thoughts and |
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> see if they can be helpful or they will be just put right. |
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|
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Problem is that people come to me and tell "Shit is not working, you |
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broke it you bastard. Fix it." Does not make me move faster. I don't |
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break something on purpose and try to fix it as fast as I can, swearing |
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does not help. But most users are kindly and try to help by doing |
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good bug reports or even offering a patch to fix it. |
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Anyway pointing out problems is not that hard, but fixing it. The |
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staff quiz is really easy and you can work on things like |
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documentation, PR, GMN without much bureacracy. And most importantly, |
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you help. |
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As Andrew already pointed out, information gathering is the problem. |
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|
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V-Li |
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|
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-- |
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Christian Faulhammer, Gentoo Lisp project |
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<URL:http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/lisp/>, #gentoo-lisp on FreeNode |
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|
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<URL:http://www.faulhammer.org/> |