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To: gentoo-nfp <gentoo-nfp@g.o>
From: "William L. Thomson Jr." <wltjr@g.o>
Subject: Re: Foundation existence and behavior (Was: Section 4.1 Member Classes)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 20:30:23 -0400
On Sun, 2008-05-25 at 02:03 +0200, Luca Barbato wrote:
> > Ok, well there are allot of users interested in release media.
> They'll help getting it done, either by doing themselves or supporting 
> people doing it because they find the thing interesting.

Um, I am talking about physical release media. Not getting releases out
the door. Like having a Gentoo LiveCD/DVD that is branded. Not burned on
someones machine.

> > So your thoughts there? Or what about at an event?
> Get someone sponsoring it.

Ok, and who is going to poney up $100k for Gentoo? FYI I am a member of
the Florida Linux Show steering committee. Because of my efforts on our
last one, we topped 300 people at our first show. Scale did ~200 at
their first show. It's not easy getting people to sponsor events like
that. Much less a Gentoo specific event good luck.

Alec Warner (antarus) was looking to lobby on Gentoo's behalf for Google
to sponsor a Gentoo event. But it would not pay for Developers to travel
to the event. Also it was likely to be in CA, and trips from European
countries or others into the US, then across the US to CA are not cheap.
It would need to be an east coast event, if even held in the US. Which I
doubt Google was interested in sponsoring. Much less some others

It's so easy to say oh, just get someone to sponsor it. Making that a
reality is very difficult.

> > Ever been by a Gentoo booth compared to others? Like say FreeBSD?
> Say FFmpeg's one?

Ok, so their are > 250 devs on FFmpeg? They have projects, and teams
like our infra? That's really comparing apples to oranges no?

> > And those rsync servers and bandwidth cost $.
> Kindly provided by privates and organizations using Gentoo.

Ok, so we aren't in need right now, but just for fun. Let's see how hard
it is to get another sponsor to give us ~$1k a month in services. Put a
call for help etc, in GMN, and let's see the response we get.

Let's start talking reality, not ideals.

> > But devs do not have to listen to users.
> Why should they? Ah, well, because we are reasonable people, open to 
> feedback and treasuring the help others give us.

Heck for that matter, at times fellow devs don't listen to others? Why
because we might have our own ideas as to how to do something but

> Again, nothing problematic here.

Ok, so if you polled the community. We would get no suggests on
improvements. Gentoo has 0 problems right now. If I recall much of the
controversy from January that stared over foundation legal issues. Went
anywhere but. People were pointing out all kinds of issues with Gentoo.

I guess since then, but some miracle, all that is resolved. Good to
know, guess I can happily resign as both a trustee, and users, and
things will be fine. Apps will be maintained, and I can go back to being
a user. I never wanted to be more. I had to, because of a lack of

> >> I think that Gentoo should be run by a group of volunteers who are 
> >> accountable to the volunteers that contribute (whether staff or devs).
> > 
> > Ok, so I guess me being on the board. I am no longer a dev, or a user.
> > Nor am I am volunteer. I guess I am going to get paid at some point?
> No, you should not exist.

Ok, good to know. I will just go away, and let things get back to where
they were. Things not getting done.

> Again what the council received as proposal could be interpreted in a 
> quite grim way.

That's for the new council to decide. If one is ever elected.

> > Sure because they are there. If we lost one, and you could not commit
> > code, or go to g.o, or etc. Then I think you and many others would care.
> > Allot, and very quickly.
> Then we'll find solutions.

And what do you think I am working on now? Waiting till it happens again
to find solutions then? That's really proactive to a possible

> They'll be replaced as needed.

Despite those I know in the business, I could not find a sponsor to
replace all that GNi provides us. In fact that would likely take several

> Not really, you plan to get more people inside the foundation that can 
> have some kind of power over the developers,

Give me a break. Not one of any of my posting has had anything to do
with power. Just organization.

> People can have different opinion and wants to check if they are right 
> the experimental way. Nothing wrong with it.

Yes but just like package maintanance. There are those that will cast
their opinions. Then there are those that will actually do the work, day
in and day out.

I love all these opinions, given the lack of interest for running or
wanting to be on the board. I wish more that had opinions, were willing
to put their effort where their words and thoughts are.

I have.

William L. Thomson Jr.
Gentoo Foundation

signature.asc (This is a digitally signed message part)
Re: Foundation existence and behavior (Was: Section 4.1 Member Classes)
-- Richard Freeman
Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- William L. Thomson Jr.
Re: Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- Richard Freeman
Re: Section 4.1 Member Classes
-- William L. Thomson Jr.
Foundation existence and behavior (Was: Section 4.1 Member Classes)
-- Luca Barbato
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