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To: gentoo-alt@g.o
From: Grobian <grobian@g.o>
Subject: Re: Re: [gentoo-alt] ppc-macos est mort, vive ppc-macos?
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:43:08 +0200
On 14-09-2006 18:30:41 +0200, Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote:
> On Thursday 14 September 2006 14:32, Grobian wrote:
> > You know this is pretty not so true.  We did a GWN message on it, and
> > got a lot of shit on that back.
> No, you got ciaranm yelling at you. I wouldn't consider that "a lot of shit", 
> especially considered that *I* was the one who should have handled him, as I 
> was, and still am, the Gentoo/Alt project lead.

Let's skip this issue, and leave it behind.

> > Also fellow developers, which I talked 
> > to (even gave a presentation on it) in Kranzberg and Brussels on Gentoo
> > meetings never showed any interest nor excitement. 
> I know of at least a few fellow developers who were quite interested in it, 
> but didn't want it for Mac OS X, and they mostly thought prefix was supposed 
> to be just for that.

I always stressed it not to be an OSX only thing.  But anyway.  I see
your point.

> > Not to mention that basically everything/everyone 
> > that was involved in "it" died afterwards, left, or considers leaving
> > pretty soon, feeling all got worse, instead of better.
> I also told you that some issues should have handled by me solely. 
> Unfortunately it seemed to me that both you and Kito were scared by the 
> boogeyman, that you thought he could kill your project even when I was 
> appointed as Gentoo/Alt lead covering the empty seat and thus being the one 
> the boogeyman should have talked to.

I have no idea who or what you are referring to here.  I know we don't
always agreed, but I never saw you as a threat to the OSX people.


> Maybe we didn't get much support in the past, but also the QA issues brought 
> on by solar was handled pretty quickly, without any problem, ending up 
> dissolving like a soap bubble.

What is the relation between this particular action and devs not
interested in prefixed code?

> I think the only thing that might resurrect Gentoo for Mac OS X, and Prefix 
> together, and Gentoo/Alt as a whole, is trying to do more public things. 
> Maybe we should find a developer to handle these things and blog about them 
> (exg, want to open one?) so that it gets more spot on. You told me before 
> that you wanted something usable to present before going public. Well, I 
> think you have something already, but it's not public yet.

Ok.  So, you want to "fight".  Well, my ears are opened.  Listen, we
have something "usable", ok.  But it not being public?  It's public as
hell!  Well, we don't have a project page... maybe we should make one,
but to me, prefix is pretty obvious, and can be found with google.  I'm
just not an IRC person, and I don't do monthly -dev postings.  I
wouldn't mind writing some prefix progress stuff each month, telling
what I did.  I'm willing to do something, if you think it can go
somewhere in a direction which is not in vain.

> I asked you a few times to help me with the GLEP, and you basically refused. 
> Of course even others refused, but they didn't have any interest in helping 
> me.. but I'm pretty sure that if anybody helped with that GLEP, they wouldn't 
> have found any way to hinder us on its process. But I was tired after that, 
> and I admit I simply given up soon about it, thinking of more direct impact.

If you refer to the GLEP of the keywords, then I think we have a
miscommunication.  We should reword it (my english is too cryptic) and
flesh out the outstanding issues.  If you mean a GLEP about prefix here,
then I don't recall someone ever mentioning it apart from ferringb.

> Right now, with the new commitment of the council, I do want this to continue 
> and proceed. And I'm sorry, this will happen that you want it or not; we 
> might take another year before going usable, but I'm not afraid. In an year, 
> Gentoo/FreeBSD started from something almost unusable and entered the tree.. 
> helped mostly by a single developer that was just recruited... because I 
> wanted it and I wasn't scared by the boogeyman or by developers that didn't 
> like the project at first.

You most certainly deserve kudos for putting Gentoo/FreeBSD in the tree.
And yes, it was done in a nice way.  Just don't attack me for not being
the role I don't want to be.  I want to spend the time I have on
things within Gentoo which make me glow, that doesn't mean I'm a born
leader or fighter for the things I want to have.

> Sorry if you lost interest in Gentoo because of the devrel issue, but I'm 
> afraid that was just another mistake...

I bet you know that the desire to be in Gentoo making Prefix work, was
stronger than the anger towards it.  If there would be no interest, I
would not be here.  Though, for my own health, it is much better to be
working without too much aggitation.

Now I hope we can continue this discussion in a lighter fashion, because
I'm willing to make something going, to put efforts in that.  I don't
want you to fuel your anger with my stupid stuff any more.

Fabian Groffen
Gentoo on a different level
gentoo-osx@g.o mailing list

ppc-macos est mort, vive ppc-macos?
-- Grobian
Re: [gentoo-alt] ppc-macos est mort, vive ppc-macos?
-- Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò
Re: Re: [gentoo-alt] ppc-macos est mort, vive ppc-macos?
-- Grobian
Re: Re: [gentoo-alt] ppc-macos est mort, vive ppc-macos?
-- Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò
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