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Kito- |
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|
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Are you leveraging the work done by Haubi documented here: |
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http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Use_prefixed_portage_%28in_development%29 |
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??? |
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|
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Just wondering because I've been able to use this to get portage |
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installed on a FC4 system (I know it's not OSX). But another user has |
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been able to use this to install over 200 packages on an AIX system. |
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|
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matt |
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|
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On 10/31/05, Kito <kito@g.o> wrote: |
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> |
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> On Oct 30, 2005, at 4:49 AM, Grobian wrote: |
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> |
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> > Since it "is silly if you want things to work before several years |
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> > off" |
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> > [1], perhaps it's not that useful to discuss this issue. However, we |
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> > can all dream, can't we, so let's just do it(tm). |
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> > |
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> > I will try to carve a few roads in the sand in this mail that should |
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> > somehow reflect what I think the things to discuss are, if we really |
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> > want to get moving towards our holy grail. Considering [1], this |
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> > might |
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> > be all useless afterward, but ok. |
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> > |
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> > My personal targets for this project are as follows: |
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> > 1. Make Gentoo for OSX an acceptable sub-project of the Gentoo family. |
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> > 2. Get a prefixed install to make Gentoo for OSX comparative to |
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> > Fink and |
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> > Darwin Ports, and quality wise go beyond. |
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> |
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> Why (2) is not first on everyones priority list, I really don't |
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> understand. If we can do (2) in a reasonably sane fashion, (1) will |
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> 'just happen'. |
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> |
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> > |
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> > Both two targets require some extra explanation. |
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> > 1. Gentoo for OSX functions as "black sheep" of the Gentoo family. In |
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> > that way we put a spell on not only ourselves, but also on the |
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> > Gentoo/Alt project -- which is a good candidate for the second |
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> > black |
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> > sheep. It may be just that some people don't like the smell of non |
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> > GNU/Linux stuff, but there are also constructive comments which |
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> > cannot be denied. |
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> > - My current stategy is to just show some goodwill, by for instance |
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> > reacting swift and accurate to security bugs, as my impression is |
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> > that those have been ignored in the past. But not only securty |
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> > bugs, all bugs where we get involved I try to react within |
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> > reasonable time, just to show we care. Well I do. Of course any |
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> > support in this gets a warm welcome from me. |
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> > - In cooperation with others (mostly vapier) I try to reduce the |
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> > ebuild "spam" caused by ppc-macos. An example is the big |
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> > anti conditional bug [2] which unfortunately hasn't got much of |
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> > my attention yet. The idea is simple: make unconditional stuff |
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> > just to ease maintenance and keep ebuilds slim and pure. |
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> > 2. A prefixed install for me means having a way to install into |
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> > /Library/Gentoo, /Gentoo, /Users/Library/Gentoo or wherever. I |
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> > don't |
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> > really care about the location, and a system wide install would be |
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> > fine with me too. I envision that a touch discussion on variable |
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> > prefixes, or homedir prefixes and whatever will follow if not yet |
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> > have been on the portage channels. What I would like to see is |
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> > that |
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> > we can play with it, maybe not in its ideal state, but those |
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> > improvements can be made while we're playing. |
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> |
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> My impression is everyone in the OS X team feels this is something |
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> thats going to get immaculately implemented by the portage gods, |
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> leaving us to reap the benefits.... not likely... If we don't do the |
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> work, no one will. I've been trying for months to no avail to get |
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> others involved so we can start 'playing with it'. Can lead a horse |
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> to water but can't make him drink I suppose... |
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> |
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> > - Although I have seen signals that we're close to something like |
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> > this (kudos to Kito and Brian) |
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> |
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> I have a self-hosting toolchain working in a prefix right now. Tons |
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> of bugs, tons of things not implemented yet, etc. etc. but its a |
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> solid start. Keep in mind, this should only be considered a proof-of- |
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> concept, mainly to help determine the requirements of the ebuilds |
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> when working in a prefixed environment. |
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> |
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> My rough plan is to squash a few of the major bugs left (collision- |
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> protect and binpkgs primarily), with brians help roll a new patch |
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> against current stable portage(using rc4 currently), check my overlay |
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> into the alt svn module, create a "developers preview" install pkg, |
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> and then continue adding ebuilds to the EAPI=1 overlay, adding |
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> features/bug squashing as we go. Once the overlay is in a fairly |
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> workable state, we can start/continue the beloved GLEP/Flaming |
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> process we all know and love. |
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> |
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> Brian has better insight than I on the long-term roadmap, so |
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> hopefully he'll chime in here, but my guess is the very very earliest |
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> we could see prefixed support in mainline would be around the time of |
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> saviours(3.0) official release... but in the meantime there is by no |
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> means any shortage of work to be done... |
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> |
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> All that being said, the more people working towards this same goal, |
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> the higher the probability of its success and eventual adoption by |
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> Gentoo proper. |
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> |
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> > in the mean-while I try to cope with |
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> > the bugfloods ;). Keywording the low-hanging fruit (those |
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> > ebuilds |
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> > with little or none USE-flags that just compile out of the box) |
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> > reduces the number of open bugs and should be ok when in a prefix |
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> > too. Having more keyworded in portage prepares us a bit for the |
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> > grand "Fink challenge" too. |
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> > - To reach a good quality we will have to reenable the normal |
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> > keywording scheme again. This will only be done once we have a |
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> > prefixed installer. From that point, the imlate scripts and such |
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> > count for us too. Problem there is that we will have to maintain |
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> > the whole tree, like for instance the AMD64 guys do. We're |
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> > outnumbered and hence I think we could use some extra devs that |
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> > have more free time on their hands than most of us now. |
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> |
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> Again, I think that once a product exists that is actually useful, |
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> both devs and users a like will start showing up...bit of a chicken/ |
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> egg situation I know, but this is opensource, without a strong |
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> userbase, we won't ever have a strong dev team. |
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> |
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> > |
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> > To conclude a short note on various flavours of the project, such as |
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> > progressive and darwin. I am not interested in those myself. My main |
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> > focus is on the 'consumer product', which should be the mainline |
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> > product, or the collision-protect profiles as they are called now. |
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> > The |
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> > fact that I am not interested (yet) into these profiles, does not |
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> > mean I |
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> > will never support them. I would just like to focus on getting the |
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> > mainline (normal users) product going, then if people have a personal |
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> > target to create a progressive profile for instance, I will not stop |
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> > such development -- not even wondering on how I would be able to |
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> > stop it |
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> > anyway. I consider one of my personal wishes for a 64-bit install to |
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> > be a profile that should walk the same path like a progressive |
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> > profile: |
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> > it should wait till there is a working mainline product. |
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> |
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> To follow that logic, why are we continuing to mark things ~ppc-macos |
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> when we don't even have a working a mainline product? I look at the |
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> progressive profile about the same as you look at mass keywording for |
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> all of dirks bug reports..."Its not extremely useful right now, but |
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> the work will have to be done at some point, so why not now?" |
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> |
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> Building a prefixed stage1 went extremely quickly because most of the |
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> base-system packages had already been ported to OS X via my work with |
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> the base-system people(ok, mainly just spanky ;) on the progressive |
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> profile(perl,bash,coreutils,gcc- |
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> apple,flex,bison,python,auto*,texinfo,zlib,bzip2,rsync, etc. etc.). |
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> This attitude of 'we only support the consumer product' is a good |
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> outward goal, but is also what IMHO contributed to the half-assed |
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> nature of the current collision-protect profiles...i.e. "We have a |
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> very short sighted implementation, that is a maintenance nightmare, |
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> requires very heavy modifications to the tree, and has virtually 0 |
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> appeal to both devs and users, but lets keep working hard and try to |
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> get gaim and x-chat keyworded ppc-macos because its what users want." |
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> |
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> What I'm saying is, darwin and progressive provide a testbed for the |
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> bottom-up approach that we should have been taking from the beginning. |
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> |
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> --Kito |
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> -- |
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> gentoo-osx@g.o mailing list |
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> |
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> |
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|
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-- |
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