Gentoo Archives: gentoo-project

From: Fabian Groffen <grobian@g.o>
To: gentoo-project@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items -- Council meeting 2012-05-08
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:03:51
Message-Id: 20120427071306.GT10282@gentoo.org
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items -- Council meeting 2012-05-08 by William Hubbs
On 24-04-2012 22:34:45 -0500, William Hubbs wrote:
> Everybody has to live with this stuff couldn't be more true. We are > talking about changes in the linux world that are coming from outside of > gentoo.
[snip]
> Like I said above, it isn't just the udev maintainers. We aren't talking > about changes to udev. we are talking about changes to the entire > linux ecosystem.
[snip]
> I too am definitely a proponent of choice. However, I don't feel that > the choice of having /usr on a separate file system without using an > initramfs is a practical one to offer; especially with the /usr merge > coming down the pipe.
The great /usr merge. As far as I have understood from previous discussions here, the GnomeOS folks have a vision that constitutes a one thing to rule them all approach. It makes their life (from a binary point of view) easier. - If we want to follow the current trend in desktop systems, we need to follow the GnomeOS vision. - The GnomeOS vision dictates that a vast majority of modules, libraries and programs are available early during boot. They have chosen to expect them to be in /usr, and hence that /usr is availble early during boot. In the past, and it is suggested in the quoted email again, it was claimed that everyone will start installing stuff in /usr, because of the GnomeOS vision. The only proof being brought up back then actually turned out not to be supporting that claim. It was claimed multiple times that recent Solaris would have done "the /usr merge" as well, but to my best understanding, this was based on a misunderstanding of historical Solaris characteristics. IMO UNIX mandates "the /usr merge" not to happen. Clearly, there is a drive to comply to the GnomeOS vision. With the characteristics and tools of Gentoo, this seems to be easy to effectuate. However, people that do not want to go with the GnomeOS vision, are affected by just moving tools to /usr. This is my understanding of where problems arise, and why the council was involved. People that do not want to follow the path of the GnomeOS vision, need to stay with "old" software. Software that we developed ourselves, or that we've been using for a long time to get the systems working as we want. Because of the drive of current maintainers of critical software components to follow the GnomeOS vision, the council has found people willing to keep the current state of software running. This means, that those people who want to move on, following the vision they believe in, can do so, without being forced to do things they don't believe in. In my humble opinion, the essential bit missing here, is where both camps respect each other. That is, not to make it impossible for either camp to follow their vision. I've made suggestions for this in the last council meeting. The options we have as Gentoo -- a remarkable flexible and well controllable source-based distribution -- are numerous. We can have special profiles, introduce new USE-flags, etc. So far, the discussion has indicated not more than a shift of programs from / to /usr. This, IMO, should be controlled by a profile/use-flag setting. That is, gen_usr_ldscript should NOT go, but rather stay, and just do nothing if the user is following the GnomeOS vision. -- Fabian Groffen Gentoo on a different level

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