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On 08/05/2011 05:32 PM, Patrick Lauer wrote: |
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> On 08/05/11 15:54, Markos Chandras wrote: |
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>> |
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>> On 08/05/2011 02:44 PM, Fabian Groffen wrote: |
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>>> On 05-08-2011 14:17:29 +0100, Markos Chandras wrote: |
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>>>> I am still not convinced that a committee of 7 people is |
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>>>> flexible enough to push radical changes. |
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>>> |
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>>> Perhaps I misunderstand you here, but I don't think making |
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>>> radical changes is good, that's what 7 people balance out. |
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>>> Radical changes have been made to important parts of Gentoo like |
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>>> e.g. Python, and this didn't really result in a major |
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>>> improvement, IMO. |
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>> |
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>> My point is how fast and how flexible can a committee like this |
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>> decide on global project issues |
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> |
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> If you have a good idea and carry it forward you can expect it to be |
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> ratified within the next council meeting - so with deadlines for |
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> discussion items etc. about 6 weeks turnaround time in the worst |
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> case. |
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> |
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This is very optimistic. |
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|
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> But... for that YOU have to move things forward. Demanding that |
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> council makes other people do things is not how Gentoo works. So if |
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> you think slacking arches are a problem ... aquire a Mips or Sparc or |
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> whatever machine and get cracking. |
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|
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Right, exactly what I am saying. A single developer has to put his |
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effort to push things forward. Last time I remember something similar |
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was when Ben (yngwin) tried to introduce changes and he was "forced" to |
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retirement. Awesome. You know very well that if a single person tries on |
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his own to change things, he will lose motivation sooner or later. |
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|
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You know, another solution for slacking arches is to drop the stable |
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keywords. OFC this is too scary and it wont make us look good :). This |
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problem in particular exists before I even become a developer. Everyone |
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complains, yet nothing changes :). And the solution is pretty obvious: |
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"If you can't maintain a stable tree, then don't have one" |
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|
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> |
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>> Right nobody came with a proper solution yet the problems still |
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>> exists. The same problem will probably pop up again in the future, |
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>> recycling the previous discussion and go back to sleep again. |
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>> Someone has to decide and vote for the least worst solution before |
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>> the problem goes back to hibernation, otherwise you are back to |
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>> square 0. This is no progress |
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> |
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> Actionism won't help. If you don't even have a solution either the |
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> problem is well defined, very hard to solve or not the right problem |
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> to fix (see the whole "let's find a problem so that systemd is a |
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> solution" insanity that just won't walk away and leave us alone) |
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> |
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Maybe but pretending there is no problem is not good either. Keep |
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talking and try to come up with a solution. After all, most of us ( if |
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not everyone ) are engineers, programmers etc, sysadmins. We can't |
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really say "Eh, sorry, too hard for me, I'll skip it" |
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|
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> And again, if you don't want it to go to sleep work on it, find |
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> others that want to work on it, radiate on relevant communication |
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> channels (blog, mailing lists, ...) that you work on it. Don't expect |
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> others to do things for you. |
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That is true. |
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|
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> |
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> I'm quite happy with the current state, there's lots of users |
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> helping with issues if you ask, |
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That could be better. We definitely need more communication channels |
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with users and bugzilla is a bottleneck. But this discussion does not |
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belong here. |
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|
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> there's usually a few devs that give at least moral support, and |
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> things move as fast as I can keep them moving. What's the problem |
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> with that? :) |
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|
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There is no problem, I am just saying things could definitely be better. |
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Again this does not belong here |
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|
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What I gathered from your e-mail is that Council is there to just vote |
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for issues that other devs brought to the agenda. This is a bit pathetic |
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isn't it? |
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|
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- -- |
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Regards, |
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Markos Chandras / Gentoo Linux Developer / Key ID: B4AFF2C2 |
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