Re: [gentoo-project] Re: Re: Re: Plan, then communicate (no-list)

[Nirbheek Chauhan]

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On Jan 23, 2008 10:07 PM, Steve Long  wrote:
> Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
>
> > On Jan 23, 2008 7:23 PM, Steve Long  wrote:
> >> Wulf C. Krueger wrote:
> >> > "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with
> >> > the average voter." - Winston Churchill
> >> >
> >> > s/voter/user/
> >> >
> >> Churchill also said democracy is the worst form of government: apart from
> >> all the others.
> >>
> >> He also questioned why anyone should worry about Arabs being gassed in
> >> Mesopotamia, so maybe you can just speak for yourself; would you prefer
> >> to live under Saddam, Amin or Hitler than a democratic government?
> >
> > These statements on governance are completely irrelevant here.
> Er I didn't bring them up. TBH it was only an aside to the main issue of how
> to involve users. The rest of the discussion has in fact been about
> governance, so I am puzzled that you think it "completely irrelevant."

The statements you made about Saddam, Amin and Hitler are irrelevant
here. The rest of the discussion is not.

> > `Responsibilities` is in quotes because you cannot really "police" an
> > organisation that works for free in it's free time.
> >
> Hmm and there's no such thing as forum moderators or irc ops?

You're mis-interpreting my statements. Perhaps I need to give a bit
more context to the words I use.

Policing in the sense of forcing devs to work on things they do not
want to work on.

When you're being paid to govern (as in the case of politicians) it's
their job, and they have to do it no matter how much they dislike it.
Not so in open source.
Of course, devs "behaving" is something that is a social necessity,
and is currently handled well in Gentoo.


>
> > The basic tenants of democracy of "equality" and "freedom"
> > have no meaning whatsoever in this context.
> Again, in your opinion. How can the "basic tenants of democracy" have
> nothing do with it if one is using "a combination of meritocracy and
> democracy"?

You're not understanding how I meant this combination of meritocracy
and democracy works. Meritocracy to choose the "leaders" (devs), and
Democracy between them. The users don't come in the picture at all.
If the devs wish to listen to the users, well and good. If not, no
one's forcing the users to stay. It's nothing like a country where
you're tied to the place you're living, and you have no choice.

>
> > In fact, I'm tempted to invoke Godwin's Law at this point.
> >
> puhleez.

You showed as though the opposite of democracy is a gruesome
dictatorship led by people such as Saddam, Hitler, and Mussolini.
You're telling me that isn't an application of Godwin's Law?

Godwin's Law:
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison
involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."


> > This is a *completely* different situation, and one simply cannot make
> > generalisations such as you have.
> >
> I didn't; you inferred and generalised an awful lot all on your own ;)

Perhaps the phrase "wrong place to use these examples" instead of
"generalisations" would've worked better?

- --
~Nirbheek Chauhan

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