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On 1/20/08, John Lawles <jl.050877@×××××.com> wrote: |
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> Alec, |
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> |
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> > ...a thread about communication problems... |
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|
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I've moved this to project. Hopefully it will not be as flamey as you |
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expect; but if it is I apologize in advance. |
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|
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> |
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> Not exactly. Just for clarification, I was suggesting: |
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> |
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> (a). Decide what the big-picture problems are, if any. |
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> (b). If any, develop a plan |
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> (c). Communicate it to users |
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> |
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> From what I, as a mere user, can tell, the contentious issue |
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> is not so much (c) as it is (a). The issue seems to be that some |
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> developers regard (a) as a personal insult rather than a request |
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> for better organization and coordination among the developers. |
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|
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(a) is a bit vague. Am I supposed to address issues that Gentoo |
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developers have? Gentoo users have? The Gentoo community? |
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|
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The community currently has no good means to rank problems in the view |
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of users other than the forums; which currently have their own issues. |
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|
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User Coverage: Not everyone has a forums account. Not everyone uses |
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their forums account. We have no idea how many users we have |
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(ancidotal numbers suggest ~200000; see |
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http://dev.gentoo.org/~antarus/bouncer-stats.txt). It is difficult to |
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know what percentage of users responded and thus becomes difficult to |
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judge how important something is (we have only the respondants data to |
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use). |
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|
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Arguably you could say that anyone who didn't vote doesn't care; but |
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you have to factor in people who didn't learn of the vote during the |
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voting period. |
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|
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User Education: This is that whole Cathedral thing. Below I'll talk |
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about Daniel's goal of maximizing developer impact and this plays a |
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big part. Many developers don't talk to users because its draining |
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and they want to work on projects that they have a high impact on. I |
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could sit in #gentoo and field questions all day (I've done it before) |
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but I have things I could spend my time on that are more worthwhile to |
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the project (and we are lucky enough to have a crack team of awesome |
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contributors that staff that channel). |
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|
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Talking to users is exhausting when the user really has a |
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misconception about a given problem, program, or feature. It takes |
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time to educate people why something works the day it does and |
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documentation only helps so much. Give bad service and the user is |
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off to the forums to complain about how he was mistreated by that |
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Antarus guy on #gentoo-portage and how much Gentoo sucks. |
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|
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That being said; talking to users who know what they are doing (doubly |
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so when they know more than me) is a delight and I'm generally happy |
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to take the time to respond. If there was some way to aggregate user |
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complaints into concrete problem sets I'm all ears. |
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|
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User Validation: Most systems that users can use to respond on a large |
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scale don't have a means to validate whether they use your software or |
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not. This is more of a trend game; needing to look at the aftermath |
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of any given aggregate data and look for areas where people may have |
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given feedback that we should throw out (like automated voting). I |
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don't think this problem is necessarily solvable or that big a deal |
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but it is something to consider/ |
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|
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> |
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> Drobbins has addressed (a) and (b) and (c). My suggestion is |
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> that the-powers-that-be at Gentoo address them also, starting with |
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> (a) and produce, hopefully, a far better plan. |
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|
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Drobbins has addressed very little in my eyes. Sure we have |
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communication problems (pr was basically dead until this incident) and |
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we have leadership issues. His plan is not well specified: |
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|
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1. Open the lines of communication. How? We have an influx of |
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people interested in helping out with GMN and PR which is good. We |
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have a new PR lead. I'm busy working on news items and learning XSL |
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to try and change the webpages a bit. The foundation obviously failed |
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at providing data in the past and I hope to change that. We have |
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tried to be as transparent as possible with posts to -nfp, posts to |
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-project, news items on the website, etc. |
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|
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Are there other places where communication is lacking? What kind of |
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information are the users looking for? |
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|
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2. Maximize developer impact per unit time. How? |
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I'm uncertain where Daniel thinks developers are wasting time stuck in |
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process. We could kill the 30 day stability guideline in an attempt |
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to get packages into stable quicker; but I'm unsure what that would do |
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to overall quality (which a subset of the userbase seems to think is |
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subpar at this time). I'm also unsure how much time it costs someone |
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to become a fully-fledged developer; however I think we have a decent |
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set of options for individuals who wish to contribute without being a |
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full-time developer (sunrise, proxy-maint, arch tester, overlays). |
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|
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Are there specific processes we have that you think hold developers back? |
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|
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3. The project has hit several scalability issues; but Daniel does |
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not specify what these issues are or his ideas on solving them. It's |
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difficult to specify management roles in a volunteer organization but |
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obviously some are needed. Most projects lack a strong project lead |
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and finding qualified motivated people who want to spend some time |
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dealing with people instead of technical problems is a difficult |
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process that we could possibly improve. |
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What exactly are these scalability limits? It is difficult to say |
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much about this item since it was vague. |
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|
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> |
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> This is sent off-list because, as you point out, it does not |
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> belong on gentoo-nfp. |
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Feel free to punch me if you dislike me forwarding it to project; I |
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think it is a worthwhile conversation to have and I wish to have it in |
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public. |
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> |
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> Regards, |
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> |
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> John |
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> |
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Thanks, |
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|
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-Alec |
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antarus@g.o |
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-- |
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