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Funny ... those who are most interested in having language-specific |
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pages are unable to take part in our discussion due to language |
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limitations ;) But still they ping me in IRC/xmpp so partially they |
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pushed me onto this topic. |
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В Срд, 19/10/2011 в 15:43 +0200, "Paweł Hajdan, Jr." пишет: |
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> On 10/19/11 3:31 PM, Christian Ruppert wrote: |
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> >> Hello. While it is not tool late, could you guys reconsider top-down |
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> >> localization approach decided on last meeting[1]? |
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> >> |
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> >> There are language specific things that will be be kept out of wiki |
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> >> only due to this policy. For example I don't see any reason to write |
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> >> article about use of Russian cryptography algorithms in Gentoo in any |
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> >> language but Russian. There is no need to have this article in |
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> >> English since nobody will read it. |
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> |
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> Maybe those rare cases can just use the unofficial wiki? It seems to me |
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> that it would support that scenario. |
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|
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Why? |
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> My reasoning here is that it's better to have _something_ working for |
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> the official wiki (and having an English version is arguably the most |
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> important), than discuss for ages about the perfect solution. |
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Just give this option and let language coordinators decide what's better |
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for their language. |
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|
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> Maybe in the future the wiki could be switched from this top-down to |
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> some hybrid model that would allow writing standalone non-English |
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> articles. But for starting, I think a good decision has been made. |
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> |
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> > I think it is ok to expect that "everybody" can read and/or write |
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> > English, at least partially. :) |
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> |
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> Yeah. |
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Well, I don't have statistics for now and I can start poll on gentoo.ru |
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to get back with results, but my guess is that about 90% of Russian |
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community users are unable to write English documentation. Still there |
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are active users who share their solutions fixes/ideas. |
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|
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> > I don't know about other languages but at least for English/German it |
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> > applies. *I* even try to avoid German docs because of that and often |
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> > they're also misleading or "completely" wrong, not enough people who |
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> > review it because they can't read it... |
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> |
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> Yeah, and this isn't even about any specific language, I think the |
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> critical point is the smaller pool of reviewers. |
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|
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Well, I think this depends on how "far" languages are. French English |
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even share lot's of word |
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|
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> > So you *basically* need English knowledge/basics to install and use |
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> > Gentoo/Linux, not everything is translated and mostly not even fully. |
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> > Commands, Sources, ... almost all "English". You even need (basically) |
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> > English to learn C or other programming/script languages - Why would |
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> > you want to write docs, comments or even the help messages in your |
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> > native language then? |
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|
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In physics we have a joke that reflects reality very well: in theory |
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there is not difference between theory and experiment while on practice |
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it is. |
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|
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Last week my co-worker installed Gentoo based on "misleading and |
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partially wrong" but still Russian only documents. He is practically |
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unable to read English well but uses Ubuntu for many years and now I've |
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forced him to use Gentoo (Yay! :) ) Also he programs php and yet there |
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are lots of technical books in Russian. |
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> I think for non-technical users it can make a difference. |
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I think vice versa. In technical literature the number of words is very |
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limited so it's possible to learn some basic words and be able |
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understand a "general" idea of the document. Code examples or listings |
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helps here very much. But this "understanding" is not the same as |
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writing English. Reading != writing. |
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> > We also use English for our Mailinglists, IRC, Forums, Bugzilla and so |
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> > on, why? Because everybody can read it. |
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> |
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> Yeah. |
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|
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Bad example since there are Russian mailing lists, IRC, forums and users |
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requested me many times to create Russian bugzilla :) |
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|
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> > Another *bad* example are translated error messages. |
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> > Do you like to get bug reports with German error logs? |
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> |
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> +1 |
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np here. If error message is unreadable I just request additional |
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information. |
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That said I see that you already set on this. Well... Let's see how it |
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goes in real life but it'll be great if there will be no such |
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requirement "hardcoded". It'll be cool if you provide mechanism to allow |
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easy extension for language specific pages in future. |
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|
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-- |
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Peter. |
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