Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-dev] Special meeting [WAS: Council meeting summary for 8 May 2008]

[Alistair Bush]

Richard Freeman wrote:
  > Uh - the word "must" is a bit strong.  Why "must" an election be
> performed?  GLEP 39 is a document several years old, that probably
> pre-dates half of the devs here, and most likely most of the ones that
> were around weren't really envisioning that it be used in this way today.

To quote jaervosz
"Because that was the wording we voted on. I'd say hold the election as 
GLEP 39 specifies and be done with the issue."

>
>> If it isn't then we will no longer have a functioning Council with a
>> mandate from the ppl!!! ( maybe a little over dramatic ).  There would
>> be no requirement for anything they say to be enacted upon and the
>> "shit would hit the fan". ( or would we just elect a new council and
>> let them pretend to be the one true Council ).
>
> First - I suspect that most devs don't really care a great deal about
> this issue - I doubt that the hundred-or-so required devs to fork a new
> distro are going to leave because a few people missed a scheduled
> meeting.  If the council announced that there would be a re-do of the
> meeting and a new discussion of GLEP 39 I doubt that people would start
> ignoring the resolutions of the council - particular those in key roles
> in the project (ie those with administrative access to project
> resources, the trustees, etc).  If the council announced new elections
> then everybody would start working towards new elections.

It doesn't matter whether a hundred or so dev's care.  It matters 
whether ~some~ dev's care.  Yes this is a situation where the minority 
does matter.  Why?  well what were to happen if the infra team where to 
decide the decisions of the council ( retirements, bans, etc, etc ) were 
not enforceable.  I realise this is being dramatic but it is that exact 
drama I am attempting to avoid.  At the moment it is pretty clear that 
at least some dev's are questioning the mandate that the council would 
have to continue.  When it comes down to it, the law is the law and even 
when the situation is silly, the law must be followed.

>
> The council was elected because they already had the respect of most
> gentoo devs.  That isn't going to change simply because a few people
> missed a meeting.  Organizations aren't run by job titles unless those
> job titles come with the ability to sign paychecks.  They're run by
> people - and leadership is respected regardless of policies written on
> paper.
>

No it isn't, and hopefully they get voted back in quick smart.

>>
>> Could any developer challenge the validity of the Council.  Who would
>> be responsible for judging that, Foundation members?
>
> Anybody can do anything they want - most of us live in free countries.
> Who would judge that?  Well, that would be our peers.  When we say
> stupid things people start ignoring us.  When we say smart things people
> listen to us.  I can post a poll on some forum somewhere and call it a
> gentoo election, but nobody is going to pay attention to the results
> because most people wouldn't recognize me as a gentoo leader.  If a
> bunch of well-respected devs did the same thing then there is a good
> chance everybody else would go along with it (or there would be a fork).
>  However, I don't think all that many well-respected devs are eager to
> mount a coup over a single missed meeting.
>

My problem with this is that there is required to be a fork.  My 
prefered solution would be that Foundation Members call for elections of 
the Council and can vote no confidence in the council and the Council 
can vote no confidence in the Foundation.  Basically similar to a 
Constitutional Monachy.  but I want to talk more about this is Gentoo 
Leadership Thread.

Under this model there are certain checks and balances and it is simple.

>>
>> In fact, whose duty is it too call the election? Decide when any
>> election is to take place?
>
> Hmm - I suspect that would again be the council - since everybody
> already looks to them for leadership.  Why don't we see what their
> perspective is?  If you feel strongly about new elections try contacting
> one of them directly and talking about it.

Betelgeuse, the dev I respect the most on the council ( due to our java 
association ), has already stated we should get the election out of the way.

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