On Jan 15, 2008 11:02 AM, Steve Long <slong@...> wrote:
> George Prowse wrote:
> > Dominik Riva wrote:
> >> Let the community vote on a constitution for the council. (One from the
> >> developers and as much others that have a substancial backing from the
> >> community. In Switzerland we normally can vote for 2 to 3 versions of a
> >> "hot iron" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendum#Switzerland)
> OK I think we're mixing terminology here, which could get confusing: there
> already is a Council, and it's the ultimate decision-making body on
> technical matters.
I was referring to exactly that Council. I would like to see it
rebuild stronger then ever by being voted by the community at large
But it will in its new incarnation handling all matters Gentoo, that
needs a decision made by some sort of a lead.
> >> A new council of 5 persons gets voted that stands under the rules of the
> >> new Gentoo constitution by the community at large.
> >> (Yes they will vote drobbins in if the likes to accept his nomination in
> >> the light of the new rules)
> Er no, drobbins has insisted that the entire Board would *all* be his
> appointees, and Gentoo would have *no* say in the matter.
drobbins would have no say as Gentoo declined politely his offer.
> All it says to me is: hurry tf up and join the SFC:
> ..seems like good company to keep in my eyes, and Gentoo can take itself
> out of the SFC whenever it likes.
>From all I know about the SFC, I welcome this step.
> With an individual in charge, you have a single point of failure. Stress
> builds up on that person and they turn more and more to their inner-circle,
> who will reassure them in the face of "adversaries". The same thing happens
> with small cliques. It's not healthy for any organisation, leave alone one
> as large and semi-autonomous as the Gentoo dev community.
> IOW moving backwards to a BDFL model isn't opening anything up, and isn't a
That is why I would like to see the Council do the job.
> >> One last thing in my own interest:
> >> Please fill in the gaps at http://gentoo-wiki.com/Problems_at_Gentoo
> >> with your internal knowledge.
> So what's going to be on that page in a year's time? And why can't people
> get this information from the quite long posts in the forum threads?
I hope some some new problems are on that page in a year.
Because the forum posts and topics are quite long and the information
is all over the place and even most of it is in the mailing lists.
> I see it as a temporary internal Community matter, and there's more than
> enough info on the forums. Apart from your "own interest" (whatever that
> is) whom does it really serve?
I like to give Gentoo a tool to measure what in the eyes of community
needs to be done at large - where the shoe is pressing if you will.
And It addresses not only this matter. I hope I can move this problem
soon to a sister page with the title "Past Problems at Gentoo"
and mark the solution that was taken.
> >> The community needs all information's it can get if it has to vote. This
> >> geeks want to know that what they do to there beloved distribution is
> >> the right thing to do.
> You're assuming the users get a vote: they don't and personally I'm not at
> all fussed about it. It's not my code, and it's not me who'd have to work
> under the new regime.
Rebuilding a leadership by voting is a common way of rebuilding lost
trust and gives the community the feeling it is not ignored.
You don't care enough about Gentoo to vote?
> You may be right that it won't change anything however; this is one of the
> rare occasions (it's the only one I can actually think of tbh ;) where i'm
> siding with the devs against the users (since the discussion is framed
> along those lines), in that it's their choice to decide how and with whom
> they want to work.
> drobbins' offer left a nasty taste in my mouth: one week, all his own
> appointees, no information (beyond: "expect big changes"), no discussion.
> Er, no thanks?
I can understand drobbin's ultimatum but I too don't like the taste of it.
> The software is still improving, and the herds are still feeding ebuilds
> into the main tree. I just did a fresh install from 2007.0 and
> *GENTOO STILL ROCKS!*
But for how long if some big problems don't get addressed because they
are not technical by nature?
Regards, Dominik Riva
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