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To: gentoo-project@g.o
From: Fabian Groffen <grobian@g.o>
Subject: Re: Call for agenda items -- Council meeting 2012-05-08
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:13:06 +0200
On 24-04-2012 22:34:45 -0500, William Hubbs wrote:
> Everybody has to live with this stuff couldn't be more true. We are
> talking about changes in the linux world that are coming from outside of
> gentoo.

[snip]

> Like I said above, it isn't just the udev maintainers. We aren't talking
> about changes to udev. we are talking about changes to the entire
> linux ecosystem.

[snip]

> I too am definitely a proponent of choice. However, I don't feel that
> the choice of having /usr on a separate file system without using an
> initramfs is a practical one to offer; especially with the /usr merge
> coming down the pipe.


The great /usr merge.

As far as I have understood from previous discussions here, the GnomeOS
folks have a vision that constitutes a one thing to rule them all
approach.  It makes their life (from a binary point of view) easier.

- If we want to follow the current trend in desktop systems, we need to
  follow the GnomeOS vision.
- The GnomeOS vision dictates that a vast majority of modules, libraries
  and programs are available early during boot.  They have chosen to
  expect them to be in /usr, and hence that /usr is availble early
  during boot.

In the past, and it is suggested in the quoted email again, it was
claimed that everyone will start installing stuff in /usr, because of
the GnomeOS vision.  The only proof being brought up back then actually
turned out not to be supporting that claim.

It was claimed multiple times that recent Solaris would have done "the
/usr merge" as well, but to my best understanding, this was based on a
misunderstanding of historical Solaris characteristics.  IMO UNIX
mandates "the /usr merge" not to happen.

Clearly, there is a drive to comply to the GnomeOS vision.  With the
characteristics and tools of Gentoo, this seems to be easy to
effectuate.  However, people that do not want to go with the GnomeOS
vision, are affected by just moving tools to /usr.  This is my
understanding of where problems arise, and why the council was involved.

People that do not want to follow the path of the GnomeOS vision, need
to stay with "old" software.  Software that we developed ourselves, or
that we've been using for a long time to get the systems working as we
want.  Because of the drive of current maintainers of critical software
components to follow the GnomeOS vision, the council has found people
willing to keep the current state of software running.  This means, that
those people who want to move on, following the vision they believe in,
can do so, without being forced to do things they don't believe in.

In my humble opinion, the essential bit missing here, is where both
camps respect each other.  That is, not to make it impossible for either
camp to follow their vision.
I've made suggestions for this in the last council meeting.  The options
we have as Gentoo -- a remarkable flexible and well controllable
source-based distribution -- are numerous.  We can have special
profiles, introduce new USE-flags, etc.

So far, the discussion has indicated not more than a shift of programs
from / to /usr.  This, IMO, should be controlled by a profile/use-flag
setting.  That is, gen_usr_ldscript should NOT go, but rather stay, and
just do nothing if the user is following the GnomeOS vision.

-- 
Fabian Groffen
Gentoo on a different level
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Replies:
Re: Call for agenda items -- Council meeting 2012-05-08
-- William Hubbs
Re: Call for agenda items -- Council meeting 2012-05-08
-- Zac Medico
References:
Call for agenda items -- Council meeting 2012-05-08
-- Fabian Groffen
Re: Call for agenda items -- Council meeting 2012-05-08
-- William Hubbs
Re: Call for agenda items -- Council meeting 2012-05-08
-- Markos Chandras
Re: Call for agenda items -- Council meeting 2012-05-08
-- William Hubbs
Re: Call for agenda items -- Council meeting 2012-05-08
-- Rich Freeman
Re: Call for agenda items -- Council meeting 2012-05-08
-- William Hubbs
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Updated Jul 05, 2012

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