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To: "Steve Long" <slong@...>
From: "Alec Warner" <antarus@g.o>
Subject: Re: Commit reviews
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 20:49:40 -0700
On 10/15/07, Steve Long <slong@...> wrote:
> Doug Goldstein wrote:
> > Alec Warner wrote:
> >> On 10/15/07, Doug Goldstein <cardoe@g.o> wrote:
> >>> Jonathan Adamczewski wrote:
> >>>> Doug Goldstein wrote:
> >>>>> That's what this commits review list feels like.
> >>>>>
> >>>> Nearly every suggestion (from Donnie and others) has been over some
> >>>> issue that relates directly to either correctness or maintainability.
> >>>> It doesn't matter if you can "rattle off capabilities to a millimeter"
> >>>> - if they're not documented somewhere (like, say, in the comments of
> >>>> the ebuild) then the maintainer that comes after you gets to go and
> >>>> break it all over again.
> >>>>
> >>> Correctness? Fine. Go ahead. Stick $(use_enable xvmc) into the ebuild.
> >>> Do it. I dare you. Then try to compile.
> >>>
> >>> Guess what? When it blows up... that's called INcorrect. The opposite of
> >>> the right thing.
> >>>
> >>> The maintainer who comes after me would be someone with a experience
> >>> with the package. Some bumkin isn't going to come to maintain package
> >>> XYZ unless they know or use the package, and guess what? That means
> >>> experience.
> >>
> >> I think this assumption is false.  People maintain packages they don't
> >> know the intricate details of all the time.  You are of course, free
> >> to ignore any and all suggestions offered; but you are not allowed to
> >> silence them.
> >>
> >> -Alec
> >>
> > I must have not received my silence/moderate remote control for the
> > Gentoo mailing lists. Since I haven't received it, I clearly can't
> > silence anyone on the mailing lists.
> >
> Since we're not discussing the technical content any more, but whether the
> commit reviews should happen at all, I thought i'd bring this to the
> project list. Please don't take that as criticism: I appreciate many of
> your peers see "take it to project" as an insult, but it's actually a good
> thing: you have more latitude to discuss what's annoying you.
> > I still stand by my original feeling that we'd better the community NOT
> > only the developers doing the commits by updating the devmanual, which
> > is accessible to all developers and all users in the Gentoo community.
> > In addition to updating and cleaning up repoman checks, which is a tool
> > that everyone in the community can use. This is versus individual
> > examples in random ebuilds in random e-mails that all have almost an
> > identical subject on the mailing list.
> >
> I agree the devmanual and repoman should be updated, but not that the
> reviews shouldn't happen. For a start it's interesting to see the ins and
> outs of ebuilds we'd never otherwise look at, and it's even more
> interesting to see the stuff that causes an issue, eg an upstream configure
> script that can't take spaces in prefix.
> If the reviews bother you, you can surely set a procmail filter which only
> allows your ones through?
> > The commits review is flawed because if we're not documenting this stuff
> > in one central place, then when new developers join. The same lessons
> > have to be learned over and over again.
> >
> Sure, so file a patch to devmanual for stuff that's missing? Or just tell us
> the rough details here and it can be discussed before some of us lowly
> users file a patch.

I have a checkout of the devmanual and I'm working on adding some
bits.  Patches are always welcome, the source is at
svn co
or for developers:
svn co svn+ssh://user@g.o:/var/svnroot/devmanual

> > Then again, this depends on the QA guys actually doing something about
> > the outstanding bugs.
> Well there'll be an awful lot less bugs hitting user systems now that every
> ebuild is reviewed and errors are brought to the list, I'd imagine. After
> all, peer review (or the fear of it ;) is what makes Open-source software
> such high-quality.
> Is there a specific area you feel QA is falling down on? If so, please tell
> the community, and maybe we can help. I know several users who take
> pleasure in fixing bugs (and don't want the hassle of being a dev) and many
> more discuss a bug on the forums (often one they've found) before filing a
> patch.
> --
> gentoo-project@g.o mailing list
gentoo-project@g.o mailing list

Commit reviews
-- Steve Long
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